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Trying Piccolos - Lip Plate

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janetliz
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2018 7:43 am

Trying Piccolos - Lip Plate

Postby janetliz » Thu Feb 01, 2018 8:57 am

I am planning to switch from flute to piccolo. I have played flute for many years in a marching band. I had a picc to practice with for about 4 months about 15 years ago, but have only picked it up a few times since then.

I have rented a Yamaha YPC32 for a month, since it seemed pointless to try pics in a store without practicing a bit first. From online research, I am leaning towards the following, but am open to other (non-wood) options:

Yamaha YPC32
Pearl PFP-105
Roy Seaman Storm

I am hoping to try out some pics this weekend, including the Pearl. Having never played without a lip plate before, how will I know if this is something I will want in the long run? I don't want to eliminate the Pearl because I am uncomfortable without a lip plate at the first try, but I also don't want to get it and then not adjust well to the lack of a lip plate.

Store #1 (Sat.): Eastman EPC26
Sonare PS-850 - might try this just for the sake of trying to play without
a lip plate, even though is wood and won't work outdoors

Store#2 (Sun.): Gemeinhardt 1P
Jupiter JPC1010
GUO Grenaditte Picc
Pearl PFP-105E, PFP-105ES (what is the difference?)

Any ideas of where, in Southern Ontario, to try the Roy Seaman Storm?

SylvreKat
Posts: 199
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2016 6:56 am
Location: KC metro

Re: Trying Piccolos - Lip Plate

Postby SylvreKat » Thu Feb 01, 2018 10:07 pm

Hi janetliz,

Welcome to the forum! And welcome to the wonderful world of picc-ing!!

Concerning models--I don't have much experience with plastic piccs. I've played the Yami and it's a good solid horn (of course). I've heard good things about WWBW's picc, not the best out there as it's not a pro horn but again a solid player. Can't say about any others, as I don't even remember what brand my old one was.

Concerning no lip-plate--I had qualms about a lipless picc at first. I'd played only metal-headed piccs for maybe 15, 20 years before I stumbled onto the Armstrong wood. I ended up having zero issues with it having no lip plate. The wood makes the body of the head joint fatter, so it doesn't really feel much different against my lip. And playing it is exactly the same as the silver. I freely swap between them, again with zero issues. Well, except the wood is more temperamental about wanting to be fully warmed up :? while the silver will happily give its best with just a couple minutes' worth of blowing through it :) Only real diff is the Gemi is such a well-made little horn that it plays like springy butter, while the wood is more typical of every other picc I've ever played, including the Gemi model a step up from mine.

Do enjoy your picc-testing. And if they have more than one of a model you sort of like, then try them all. As my silver proves, each horn is very much an individual.

>'Kat
Flutes:1975 Gemeinhardt M2 in chrome nickel;1982 Armstrong 80;2006 Yamaha 584

Piccs:1978 Artley piece of crap 15 P;1982 Gemeinhardt 4S;1980s? Armstrong all wood (no model)

Bass:2006 Jupiter di Medici G0199
Treble:2009 Guo New Voice

+ many flute-cousins

janetliz
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2018 7:43 am

Re: Trying Piccolos - Lip Plate

Postby janetliz » Fri Feb 02, 2018 10:22 am

I've heard good things about WWBW's picc,
Is WWBW not an online store with a variety of pics? Which one are you referring to?

I wish I could rent either the Pearl or Roy Seaman, in order to give the lipless plate a good try, but that doesn't seem to be an option locally.

SylvreKat
Posts: 199
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2016 6:56 am
Location: KC metro

Re: Trying Piccolos - Lip Plate

Postby SylvreKat » Fri Feb 02, 2018 10:36 pm

You're right that WWBW is an online store. And yes, they have a good variety of piccs. But they also have their own line. I think it's called Allora. Or something like that--been many years since I got their catalog. Like I said, it's not the best horn, but from all I heard/read about it, it's a solid little instrument, well-built and a decent player. And seems like the price in the catalog was extremely reasonable.

>'Kat
Flutes:1975 Gemeinhardt M2 in chrome nickel;1982 Armstrong 80;2006 Yamaha 584

Piccs:1978 Artley piece of crap 15 P;1982 Gemeinhardt 4S;1980s? Armstrong all wood (no model)

Bass:2006 Jupiter di Medici G0199
Treble:2009 Guo New Voice

+ many flute-cousins

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pied_piper
Posts: 1700
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 1:31 pm
Location: Virginia

Re: Trying Piccolos - Lip Plate

Postby pied_piper » Sun Feb 04, 2018 5:32 pm

For a low-budget composite piccolo option ($549), you might check out the Kessler piccolo. It has a modified wave-style lip plate. I have never tried one, but I have read good reviews from other flutists. Kessler also offers a risk-free trial.

https://www.kesslerandsons.com/product/ ... e-piccolo/
"Never give a flute player a screwdriver."
--anonymous--

SylvreKat
Posts: 199
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2016 6:56 am
Location: KC metro

Re: Trying Piccolos - Lip Plate

Postby SylvreKat » Sun Feb 04, 2018 9:41 pm

I dunno, pied. Free trial is a good thing. But if she's already concerned about going from a lip plate to none, then I'd worry that any sort of wave would be way too different for her. But hey, free trial!

Does WWBW still do free trials with a supplied credit card number? I know that way back when, they'd send out I think three horns for you to test-play.

>'Kat
Flutes:1975 Gemeinhardt M2 in chrome nickel;1982 Armstrong 80;2006 Yamaha 584

Piccs:1978 Artley piece of crap 15 P;1982 Gemeinhardt 4S;1980s? Armstrong all wood (no model)

Bass:2006 Jupiter di Medici G0199
Treble:2009 Guo New Voice

+ many flute-cousins

User avatar
pied_piper
Posts: 1700
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 1:31 pm
Location: Virginia

Re: Trying Piccolos - Lip Plate

Postby pied_piper » Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:52 pm

Well, I have a Yamaha YPC-62 piccolo. When I bought it, it came with an ordinary straight picc headjoint. As a doubler on Sax, Flute, and Clarinet, I initially had some difficulty getting a good focused tone on picc even after more than a year of trying. So, when I was at an NFA convention, I tried a wave headjoint and really liked it. It made the third octave speak much easier for me, so I bought it. After a few weeks adjusting to it, I was able to get great results with it. Now, I can play up to 4th octave C which I think is pretty good for a sax player. :D

Now, if I could just shrink my hands a few millimeters, my fingers might not get in the way of each other when playing picc. :roll: :wink:

Bottom line is everyone has to use/buy whatever works for them because everybody is different and they have to try lots of options to figure out what that is.
"Never give a flute player a screwdriver."
--anonymous--

SylvreKat
Posts: 199
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2016 6:56 am
Location: KC metro

Re: Trying Piccolos - Lip Plate

Postby SylvreKat » Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:15 am


Bottom line is everyone has to use/buy whatever works for them because everybody is different and they have to try lots of options to figure out what that is.
Amen, brother. That's why companies make many different types of everything. None of us are alike. Although sometimes I wish they'd only give us a couple of choices to make things easier to pick.

Me, I could not stand the wave mouthpiece. Hated it. But then, I'm only a flutist/pianist/sometime malletist so that could make a diff. And I only tried it at a little flute "party" (that was actually a sales pitch for semi-pro and up instruments :roll: ). Maybe if I could get past how awful it felt and handled, it might change my opinion.

Janet, as you can probably see, you really do need to give them a good play before choosing. Take advantage of the free trials. Take a road trip to the nearest big instrument store. Try all that you can. Try several of the models you like better. Then buy the one you like best and that best plays for you.

>'Kat
Flutes:1975 Gemeinhardt M2 in chrome nickel;1982 Armstrong 80;2006 Yamaha 584

Piccs:1978 Artley piece of crap 15 P;1982 Gemeinhardt 4S;1980s? Armstrong all wood (no model)

Bass:2006 Jupiter di Medici G0199
Treble:2009 Guo New Voice

+ many flute-cousins

janetliz
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2018 7:43 am

Re: Trying Piccolos - Lip Plate

Postby janetliz » Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:40 am

I ended up being able to try the following on Sunday:

Gemeinhardt 1P
Jupiter JPC1010
Pearl PFP-105E - wave and non-wave head joints

I did like the sound on all of them. For me, on first try, the Gemeinhardt was the easiest play but the Pearl had the nicest sound. I didn't find a lot of difference with or without the lip plate - Gemeinhardt was easier, but not by much. I think my next step will be to rent a picc without a lip plate and then try again. My choices would be Jupiter JPC1010 or Gemeinhardt 4P.

For the Kessler, I'm not clear if the fee trial applies to Canada - or the cost of shipping to Canada and back. For Fluteland, the shipping for a trial (both ways) would be $80USD + customs both ways. At that point, I would probably be better to drive down there in the spring (I don't like winter driving) and be able to try a greater variety in store with a sales person there. Interestingly, the Yamaha YPC32 seems to be more expensive there than the Canadian retailers - $1387USD vs. $949CAD.

SylvreKat
Posts: 199
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2016 6:56 am
Location: KC metro

Re: Trying Piccolos - Lip Plate

Postby SylvreKat » Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:59 pm

Mm, Canada, eh. I bet you're currently appreciating global warming even more than we are here in KC (about 20°)

My suggestion is, if you can stand to wait, then do wait for the thaw and make the road trip. One, you can save up a little more money and can maybe consider the next level of horns. Two, like you said you'll have a greater variety to play with.

Otherwise, I'm really partial to Gemis :D as my silver is the sweetest picc I've ever played....

>'Kat
Flutes:1975 Gemeinhardt M2 in chrome nickel;1982 Armstrong 80;2006 Yamaha 584

Piccs:1978 Artley piece of crap 15 P;1982 Gemeinhardt 4S;1980s? Armstrong all wood (no model)

Bass:2006 Jupiter di Medici G0199
Treble:2009 Guo New Voice

+ many flute-cousins

janetliz
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2018 7:43 am

Re: Trying Piccolos - Lip Plate

Postby janetliz » Sat Feb 10, 2018 9:24 am

I have been trying to work out the timing if I go to the Fluteland to look at piccolos, and also the duty to bring it back legally. If i go, I want to know the actual cost in both Canada and the US. For the models that are available in Canada, it doesn't look like there would be enough of a saving to make the purchase in the US (just checking Fluteland prices), so I would be going there just to try the models that are not available here. If I have to be in the US for 48 hours, to get the personal exemption of $800CAD, then I am limited to Easter weekend if I want to play piccolo on parade this year.

I am still trying to figure out why the Yamaha seems so much less expensive in Canada - $950CAD vs. $1745CAD if I am making the conversion correctly (before adding tax/duty to either one).

https://www.long-mcquade.com/21874/Band ... _Resin.htm

https://www.fluteworld.com/Yamaha-YPC-3 ... t=0&sort=6


I did find the Jupiter JPC1000 available locally, so I am hoping to try that next weekend.
When my current rental is finished, I am going to try to rent the Gemeinhardt 4P for a week (to practice without a lip plate).
We are supposed to have a band practice tomorrow, where I was going to bring the rental piccolo for the first time, but it looks like the weather may cause that to be cancelled. If so, I will try to time the Gemeinhardt rental to try it at our next practice (date TBD).


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