Headjoint fit and tone

[bluespiderweb]

Hi people! I'm kind of new to the forum and the silver flute. I've been hanging at the Chiff and Fipple forum for Irish music, and have been playing Irish wooden keyless flutes and low whistles for about 3 years now.

Recently, I decided to give the Boehm another try after a short session with with a couple last year, and they didn't impress me much. Now, I've tried another two, and believe me, I'm impressed this time around!

I like your forum-it's laid out just like Chiff and Fipple, and it has been keeping me busy reading about the silver flute. I ran across someone posting here about having a headjoint refitted because it was on the loose side, and after it was fitted, the tone changed for the worse. I can't find the post now, but that's the gist of it.

It seems to me that there may be some truth in this, as I bought a Yamaha 371 Allegro flute on Ebay recently, and the tone was very different from my Gemeinhardt M2 (another Ebay find), but after a little period of adjustment, I liked the Yamaha's tone, as it was different, and sounded quite modern compared to the standard tone of the M2 that I really like anyway.

Here's the kicker-the Yamaha's headjoint just slipped into place, so thinking it could be leaking (it also had a small sweet spot for the embouchure-which I was told was not normal), I put some teflon tape on it, and sure enough, the embouchure was easier, but the change in tone didn't please my ears. It became more stuffy-without the clarity it had before. Anyway, what I decided to do was send the flute back, since it seemed it had a bit of wear and tear, and I just wasn't getting along as well as I should have been.

It turns out I found another Yamaha 371 at a music store in NC, and just got it today. It looks like it wasn't used much at all-may have been a demo or the like. It has a tighter fitting headjoint, and the tone seems to be on like the other one when I applied the teflon tape-a little stuffy.

I did notice that when I played more at a higher volume level, I didn't notice the stuffiness, and the tone seemed pretty good.

Is it normal to have a stuffy tone when playing at lower volumes on these Yamahas?

And, is it possible that loosening the fit a little on the headjoint will clear the tone a little when playing at a lower volume level?

I'd appreciate any thoughts or like experiences you might have about this, and I figure that I will also ask a couple of techs too about it.

Thanks for your help if you can.

[flutepicc06]

Definitely an interesting question. I would not suggest loosening the fit of the headjoint so long as it is not overly difficult to put in place, as this will open up a leak, just as if one of the pads was not sealing. It may be that the Yamahas are simply not a good match for you and your concept of a good tone, and another make/model would suit you better, but it is not normal to get a noticeably "stuffy" sound on any flute so long as it's well built (which Yamahas certainly are), in good repair, and matches you well. You might try taking this newest flute to a repair tech for a good going over. New flutes often need some setup to perform properly, and used flutes often need some repair maintenance to be put back in proper playing condition. Leaks or mechanical problems can result in tonal changes, so a repair tech is where I would start. If he finds nothing wrong with the flute, then you can consider changing instruments or altering the way you're playing. As a beginner on a Boehm system flute, you'd probably benefit from taking some time to develop your embouchure before deciding definitively that it's the flute rather than the way you're playing it that's resulting in a "stuffy" sound.

[bluespiderweb]

Thanks for your advice, fpc, all of it is good. Yes a good tech would be the best help, I'm sure. Just made me wonder, since someone else mentioned having the headjoint fit tightened, and it made it sound worse.

Anyway, I also found something that might be affecting the sound, besides my own lips (though I did get a very nice and different tone from the other same model Yamaha with the looser headjoint). I found that the lower body tenon on this one had probably been dropped (one side is flattened) and made it out of round. When looking into the bore from the foot end, it can easily be seen that it protrudes into the bore. Don't know how much it will affect the tone, but I plan to have a tech correct that first, while checking it all out too.

Otherwise, I agree-some time spent with it will surely help with the tone.

[Pixels]

Hi Barry! I met you on the Native American Flute forum. I haven't been there for awhile. I picked up a Boehm flute again after a lot of years and have really been enjoying it. Good to "see" you again.

Deb (wyodeb)

[bluespiderweb]

Hi Barry! I met you on the Native American Flute forum. I haven't been there for awhile. I picked up a Boehm flute again after a lot of years and have really been enjoying it. Good to "see" you again.

Deb (wyodeb)

Hi Deb!

Good to "see" you too! I've been playing mainly Irish keyless flute, but discovered the silver flute after trying it last year-when it didn't hit me, but this time it took, and I love the added voice, not to mention the keys!

I'm glad to hear you are well and picking up the flute again. Apparently, making music is something that we need to do to feel right with the world, so bless us all so we can keep playing. Take care!

Still haven't gotten my Yamaha to a tech to find out if there's something else going on with it, or if it's me. But I think headjoint fit has something to do with it.

[Pixels]

Barry,

I, too, have a Yamaha (a 311). It is much clearer and richer sounding than the Gemeinhardt I started with (and light years better than my old Artley). My headjoint has a definite smallish "sweet spot" for best tone. I second the advice to find a good tech. I would think you would get an airy sound if the headjoint was loose. These keyed flutes seem to need periodic adjustment and leak checks. After that, consider scheduling a session or 2 with a good flute teacher. He or she might be able in a few minutes to diagnose what could take you a long, frustrating time to narrow down yourself.

Take care!
Deb

[bluespiderweb]

Definitely an interesting question. I would not suggest loosening the fit of the headjoint so long as it is not overly difficult to put in place, as this will open up a leak, just as if one of the pads was not sealing. It may be that the Yamahas are simply not a good match for you and your concept of a good tone, and another make/model would suit you better, but it is not normal to get a noticeably "stuffy" sound on any flute so long as it's well built (which Yamahas certainly are), in good repair, and matches you well. You might try taking this newest flute to a repair tech for a good going over. New flutes often need some setup to perform properly, and used flutes often need some repair maintenance to be put back in proper playing condition. Leaks or mechanical problems can result in tonal changes, so a repair tech is where I would start. If he finds nothing wrong with the flute, then you can consider changing instruments or altering the way you're playing. As a beginner on a Boehm system flute, you'd probably benefit from taking some time to develop your embouchure before deciding definitively that it's the flute rather than the way you're playing it that's resulting in a "stuffy" sound.

Well, as you suggested FP, it was pretty much all me-and getting adjusted to my new flute. Now, after 2 months of short playing times, I am beginning to finally find the best embouchure to play it for tone, and I'm pretty satisfied with it now.

Especially since I was able to compare it today side by side with a new Sonare 60 series (solid silver head only also like my Yamaha) for a good hour or so at a local music store. I came away happy to find I liked the tone of my Allegro 371 better, even though I found the Sonare easier to play-hitting pretty much all the notes at will, and my Yamaha only slightly harder to hit those same notes (highs and lows), but worth the extra effort for the little richer tone. I also thought it very interesting to see that the Sonare looked pretty much a copy of my Yamaha, granted to my untrained eye, but compared side by side.

I also tried the Sonare headjoint on my Yamaha (perfect fit), and didn't like it as much as my stock headjoint for tone. Now since I don't feel the pull of a new flute, I think I would like to try to see if I can try to find an EC Yamaha headjoint to try on mine (and maybe others just to see how they sound) hopefully at a nearby Yamaha dealer.

Anyway, I'm having lots of fun! Also got to try an Alto Sonare while I was there-pretty nice! It was my first time on an Alto, and I liked the physical size-more like me, but I think I prefer the C flute overall.

Thanks for your help and suggestions.

[fluttiegurl]

Interesting observations. Yamaha is often "copied" by other flute makers. I have not given it much thought, but I can see similarities in design between Sonare and Yamaha. I had just not quite put my finger on it. As for playing and long term use, I think the Yamaha is a far better instrument. The Sonare headjoint (as I pointed out earlier) is not exactly the same as the Powell Signature heads you buy alone, though some dealers claim they are.

It is good to hear that you are adjusting to your flute. It often takes time and practice. This makes it hard when play testing because the tendency is to go for the easier to play, when in fact, that flute may suffer in tone when compared to others. It is good that you had a long time to test.

Personally, I really like the Sonare altos. For the money, they seem to be pretty good flutes, better than most in the same price range. I also like the piccolos (which I found to be quite interesting). I found the piccolo to be nice in tone color and dynamics.