May I pose the first question

[flutego12]

I've been busy so trying to catch up here.
These posts really do not belong in the Website section. Hopefully, once the Repair Forum is fully operational, these posts can be moved there. We moderators just have to figure out how to make that happen. Apologies, Bob, I was not granted permission at that point and a little desperate, hence posted this here. Good tech challenge for you

@flutego12: I agree with much of Steve's comments about swedging pliers. They can mar the hinge tube, so I tend to reserve those for use on low end and older flutes where it's not quite so critical. For higher end flutes, the collets are less marring. Ditto on his comments about squaring/facing the ends of the hinge tube and facing the posts so that everything is in perfect alignment and square to its mating surface. not sure how this is "properly" done. I may need to square the tube ends. I suspect something needs to be inserted whilst he alignment is done.

Regarding gaps or play between the hinge tube and posts, another thing to watch for is a misaligned post. That can also create a gap or cause binding. If the post is tipped away from the end of the hinge tube, there will be a gap as in this casewhereas conversely, if the post is tipped toward the hinge tube it can bind. Sometimes there can be a combination of all those conditions within a single key stack. The important thing here is to properly analyze precisely what the problem(s) are BEFORE you start making any corrections. If you don't do that, you may make the problem(s) worse.

Oh, and one more thing that I don't think has been mentioned in this thread: When using a swedging tool or collets, the hinge rod should be inserted into the hinge tube. Otherwise, you may collapse, over compress, or oval the unsupported hinge tube.

an apt reminder indeed, I remembered your advice from the first time - I had a footjoint hinge tube that was sticky and needed to manipulate the tube so the rod would fall through unhindered. Thank you Bob.

[pied_piper]

If you found your way back to this topic, you can see that I managed to move it.

...discussion about swedging and squaring hinge tubes...not sure how this is "properly" done. I may need to square the tube ends. I suspect something needs to be inserted whilst he alignment is done.

In most cases, the hinge is swedged until it is just a hair too long and binds between the posts. Often, this leaves the end of the hinge a bit uneven so the end must be trimmed to fit and also made square. From your comment, you have intuitively figured out the purpose of a tubular (hollow) hinge shortener tool. It has a cutting end that will remove a little material from the end of a hinge tube. It also has a guide pin in the center of the cutter that keeps the cutting edge square with the end of the hinge tube. These are available in a few different sizes to accommodate small and large instruments. There is also a similar tool for solid hinges. These have a center cutter for the pivot screw but there is no guide pin, so keeping this tool square with the end of the hinge is largely dependent upon the skill of the tech.

Examples below are from the Ferree's catalog.

ScreenHunter_04 Aug. 28 14.21.jpg (55.39 KiB) Viewed 13520 times

ScreenHunter_03 Aug. 28 14.21.jpg (50.67 KiB) Viewed 13520 times

[JButky]

Those hinge tube shorteners are rather disappointing. They are generally over hardened and tend to break off at the flutes, sometimes on the first use.

You will get much longer life and flexibility with a standard interchangeable pilot counterbore available from industrial supply houses and other places.
3/16" is good for most flutes. (HSS style and 3 flutes) You can make your own pilots from your supply of steel drill rod stock.

http://www.mscdirect.com/FlyerView?page ... s/big-book

[pied_piper]

Perhaps the quality of the current product is not what is used to be. I've had mine for 30+ years and still get good results with them. However, Joe, it's good to know that there are other alternatives out there if I should ever need to replace mine. Thanks for the tip!

[mirwa]

Nice link PP, Thanks for the info Joe, that they are too brittle.

Fg12, I use tools almost identical to what has been linked from ferees, the only difference is I make my own reamers, hinge tube shorteners, facing tools, screwdrivers and so on.

[JButky]

Fg12, I use tools almost identical to what has been linked from ferees, the only difference is I make my own reamers, hinge tube shorteners, facing tools, screwdrivers and so on.

Making your own tools often is the best since you make exactly what you want. But it's often a real time saver to buy something that you can modify to what you want too.

The industrial counterbores are pretty standard issue in factories at key fitting stations.

[flutego12]

If you found your way back to this topic, you can see that I managed to move it.

...discussion about swedging and squaring hinge tubes...not sure how this is "properly" done. I may need to square the tube ends. I suspect something needs to be inserted whilst he alignment is done.

In most cases, the hinge is swedged until it is just a hair too long and binds between the posts. Often, this leaves the end of the hinge a bit uneven so the end must be trimmed to fit and also made square. From your comment, you have intuitively figured out the purpose of a tubular (hollow) hinge shortener tool. It has a cutting end that will remove a little material from the end of a hinge tube. It also has a guide pin in the center of the cutter that keeps the cutting edge square with the end of the hinge tube. These are available in a few different sizes to accommodate small and large instruments. There is also a similar tool for solid hinges. These have a center cutter for the pivot screw but there is no guide pin, so keeping this tool square with the end of the hinge is largely dependent upon the skill of the tech.

Examples below are from the Ferree's catalog.

ScreenHunter_04 Aug. 28 14.21.jpg

ScreenHunter_03 Aug. 28 14.21.jpg

BravO, my friend! Move it you have. I didn't have to look for this. The way I use the forum, (I'm a little myopic and) tend to just click on View New Post which is a BRILLIANT SET UP.
This way I just zoom into the most current thread including mine 100% of the time.

Thanks for the brilliant photos. Ah, what do you mount these on? I have so many tools including the chunky lathe but havent gotten round to sorting them out. What is the minimum sized motor in terms of power and RPM that is needed for this? Silver plated/ silver flute atm

[flutego12]

Bob Joe Steve, you really must write a book on repairs... (and Phineas on flute buying ) . I'd be the first to purchase. Just put it on Kindle, no logistical or publication costs - well minimal. Make sure it's affordable k. Then you just need about 1million of them Buy Clicks.

My guess is you are not profit motivated which is what makes you guys so great. You are knowledge sharers, educators, the guardians/custodians/mentors of the arts, um...integrous and true!!! THANK YOU!

Thks Joe for the warning. I wouldn't have dared venture there quite yet - anything powered with electricity (though i'd love to learn how to buff and the set up for it). Am still in the dark ages where flute repair is concerned - going on manpower alone.

[mirwa]

Making your own tools often is the best since you make exactly what you want. But it's often a real time saver to buy something that you can modify to what you want too.

I could not agree more joe.

It is far more economical to purchase any tool rather than attempt to make it yourself, but as you are aware, most good tools we use in the industry are either hand made or modified existing tools.

I have over the years bought many tools that looked good, but now sit on walls collecting dust because whilst they are pretty they just did not do the job, but that did not stop me from buying them in the first place.

The most important tool to me is a range of quality screwdrivers. With the loss of kraus screwdrivers, theres really nothing Im happy with on the market, JL Smith screwdrivers are pretty good, a bit thick in the shaft bit brittle as well, but I do like there handles, so this is a classic example, I buy and use there handles and make my own screwdrivers.

[mirwa]

Fg12, they are not mounted on anything, they are designed to be used by hand. You lightly cut the brass away by gentle pressure.

My ones are made so they sit on the hinge rod, I then turn them against the post and it dresses the post squarely to the hinge rod axis

[pied_piper]

Fg12, they are not mounted on anything, they are designed to be used by hand. You lightly cut the brass away by gentle pressure.

My ones are made so they sit on the hinge rod, I then turn them against the post and it dresses the post squarely to the hinge rod axis

I gather those you made yourself? Any chance you could post a photo?

[JButky]

Fg12, they are not mounted on anything, they are designed to be used by hand. You lightly cut the brass away by gentle pressure.

My ones are made so they sit on the hinge rod, I then turn them against the post and it dresses the post squarely to the hinge rod axis

I gather those you made yourself? Any chance you could post a photo?

Bob,

Think of cutting off the business end of the counterbore I posted, the through hole is the size of the steel. You slide the steel through the post into the counterbore (like a hinge tube) and then tighten it in the post. You can then grab the sounterbore by hand slide it up to the post and twist it to square up the post face.

Pretty simple really. but REALLY effective...

[pied_piper]

Bob,

Think of cutting off the business end of the counterbore I posted, the through hole is the size of the steel. You slide the steel through the post into the counterbore (like a hinge tube) and then tighten it in the post. You can then grab the counterbore by hand slide it up to the post and twist it to square up the post face.

Pretty simple really. but REALLY effective...

Ah! Now I get it, Joe. For some reason, I was visualizing that it was something more complex. Simplicity rocks!

Bob

[mirwa]

Bob,

Think of cutting off the business end of the counterbore I posted, the through hole is the size of the steel. You slide the steel through the post into the counterbore (like a hinge tube) and then tighten it in the post. You can then grab the counterbore by hand slide it up to the post and twist it to square up the post face.

Pretty simple really. but REALLY effective...

Ah! Now I get it, Joe. For some reason, I was visualizing that it was something more complex. Simplicity rocks!

Bob

Exactly