Gemeinhardt
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powayflute01
- Posts: 201
- Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2003 7:29 pm
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"in tune"
Speaking of being in tune how "in tune" should a good flute be? None are perfect I imagine. I have a Geimenhardt 2sp that is pretty much in tune with a chromatic tuner through the first two octaves and into the third then it goes sharp from E3-A3 but comes back in tune from B3-C4? I have only been playing since last Xmas so a lot of the problem may be me- but from more experienced players - are really expensive flutes "in tune" through the whole 4 octaves??? It is interesting about the shorter head joint?? Also what effect on the over all flute sound is that fact that some manufacturers tune A to 442?
Gemeinhardt
It's not so much a shorter tube length causing problems. No significant adjustments were made to the placement of the key holes, which causes the flute to be very out of tune with itself. This also sometimes happens with antique or other older instruments which were built at a lower pitch, like A438 or even A440, being shortened to raise the pitch to a level compatible to other (modern) instruments. No flute is perfectly in tune, but should be able to be played in tune by a good player. I haven't noticed adverse trends in tone with the increased popularity of A442, but it sounds a little sharp to me, having grown up w/flutes pitched at A440.
One way to check the basic intonation of your flute is, using your tuner calibrated to the correct tuning (A440 or A442), play low D, then overblow for D2 (fourth-line D). With minimal playing effort and no major lip adjustments, the two Ds should be reasonably in tune. Playing in tune with a tuner is, after a point, irrelevant anyway, since we play with people and not with our tuners. Playing with tempered-tuned instruments--pianos, guitars--is kind of like playing with a tuner, but in bands and orchestras, our tuning is acoustic, versus tempered. If the violins happen to push the pitch up to A445 during a concert, well... To answer the $$$ question, a flute doesn't have to be super-expensive to have a pretty-good scale, and sometimes, costly ones can be a little disappointing. I'm not familiar with your playing, but maybe thinking of opening your jaw a little as your continue into the higher part of the third octave would help lower the pitch up there. Think of making an "awe"-shaped vowel in the back of your throat, or of yawning. Also, the airstream angle is significant in controlling pitch. The upper lip directing the airstream downward can help correct sharpness. The Trevor Wye tone book is helpful for practicing (aside from tone, lol) long tones with a tuner for intonation, and experimenting with small-or large-changes in your embouchure and tone production, without having to worry about finger technique. Happy fluting!!!
One way to check the basic intonation of your flute is, using your tuner calibrated to the correct tuning (A440 or A442), play low D, then overblow for D2 (fourth-line D). With minimal playing effort and no major lip adjustments, the two Ds should be reasonably in tune. Playing in tune with a tuner is, after a point, irrelevant anyway, since we play with people and not with our tuners. Playing with tempered-tuned instruments--pianos, guitars--is kind of like playing with a tuner, but in bands and orchestras, our tuning is acoustic, versus tempered. If the violins happen to push the pitch up to A445 during a concert, well... To answer the $$$ question, a flute doesn't have to be super-expensive to have a pretty-good scale, and sometimes, costly ones can be a little disappointing. I'm not familiar with your playing, but maybe thinking of opening your jaw a little as your continue into the higher part of the third octave would help lower the pitch up there. Think of making an "awe"-shaped vowel in the back of your throat, or of yawning. Also, the airstream angle is significant in controlling pitch. The upper lip directing the airstream downward can help correct sharpness. The Trevor Wye tone book is helpful for practicing (aside from tone, lol) long tones with a tuner for intonation, and experimenting with small-or large-changes in your embouchure and tone production, without having to worry about finger technique. Happy fluting!!!
I agree, Trevor Wye's "Tone" book is fantastic. I put mine to so much use, it wore out to the point that I had to buy another one!
He also has an "Intonation" book... MeLizzard, have you used this one as well? Comments on it?
He also has an "Intonation" book... MeLizzard, have you used this one as well? Comments on it?
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Re: Gemeinhardt
melizzard- thanks for the great reply and answers.
Gemeinhardt
Monika, I have the Omnibus Edition of the practice books (tone, technique, articulation, intonation and breathing & scales volumes, at a substantial savings over buying all five @ $14 each 
) , but haven't really dug into the intonation book so much. It seems the text part of the book is fairly informative (kinda technical at moments), if you're interested in theory of intonation. The exercises *look* helpful, but I haven't tried too many yet. These books are all so good! My students seem to mostly benefit from the tone and breathing/scales volumes, and I personally need to give more attention to volume 6--advanced practice ( 
). Gotta get those digits under control!
) , but haven't really dug into the intonation book so much. It seems the text part of the book is fairly informative (kinda technical at moments), if you're interested in theory of intonation. The exercises *look* helpful, but I haven't tried too many yet. These books are all so good! My students seem to mostly benefit from the tone and breathing/scales volumes, and I personally need to give more attention to volume 6--advanced practice ( ). Gotta get those digits under control!Well, the main part is, how much do you practice. I'm 7th chair (next to miss brat in 6th chair always complaining about how bad our 1st chair is) out of 17 students (in the 9th grade, also). I practice a good amount of time each day, and am planing on upgrading to a Pearl Quantz Coda 625 (I think that's the right #). At the moment, I am still on my lowly little Gemeindhart 22SP, which still works well enough, but it's beginning to get harder to get better on it 
Anyways, then we have another 9th grader who practices 3 hours (every waking moment possible) every day, and is in the 10th grade band (1st chair there, so she's about to be moved up to the 11th grade band), and she has a $4000 flute.
If you practice that much, that Gemeindhart isn't for you. If you do not practice that much (around 30-90 minutes-which is still a good period of time), then the Gemeindhart's perfect for you
It also depends on a bunch of other factors, so don't always take my word for it.
Anyways, then we have another 9th grader who practices 3 hours (every waking moment possible) every day, and is in the 10th grade band (1st chair there, so she's about to be moved up to the 11th grade band), and she has a $4000 flute.
If you practice that much, that Gemeindhart isn't for you. If you do not practice that much (around 30-90 minutes-which is still a good period of time), then the Gemeindhart's perfect for you
It also depends on a bunch of other factors, so don't always take my word for it.
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sakuramimato
- Posts: 95
- Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2004 3:39 am
Since marching season started up again, I've been playing piccolo for the past couple of weeks, and rarely have had the time to practice on my Gem flute. I recently recieved my Honor Band audition information for the Tournament of Roses Honor Band and have decided to return to my usual 3-hour a day practices just to get myself up to par with the flute since I've been on piccolo for a while.
Auditions are next Sunday, so I'm working hard to learn a Berbigiuer etude in 6 days, but the 3SB seems to be sufficient at the moment.--
Auditions are next Sunday, so I'm working hard to learn a Berbigiuer etude in 6 days, but the 3SB seems to be sufficient at the moment.--
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Flutie_chick
- Posts: 8
- Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2004 2:43 pm
- Location: Urbana,Ohio
You know what....I have been playing flute for 6 years and picc for 2 and a half. I come from a pretty low income family so the flute that i began with is the one that i still have....it was extremely used. It is indeed a Gemeinhardt. I have used it in marching band for 2 years, plus the 2 junior high performances that i was allowed to participate in. It works fine. There are some extremely talented girls that play at my school and still i sit 4th chair, with a crappy beat up old flute. Stick with your Gemeinhardts. They rock!!! 
~Ashley
An expensive flute will not make a mediocre player into a good one. Lots of practice will.
I once went with my guitar teacher to buy a new guitar. I was surprised when he went to a selection of relatively inexpensive guitars and started playing different ones, listening to the sound. He chose one, the sound of which he liked, and bought it.
He played professionally, lesser known than Keith Richards or Segovia, but he was a good guitar player.
Is it any different with a flute?
I once went with my guitar teacher to buy a new guitar. I was surprised when he went to a selection of relatively inexpensive guitars and started playing different ones, listening to the sound. He chose one, the sound of which he liked, and bought it.
He played professionally, lesser known than Keith Richards or Segovia, but he was a good guitar player.
Is it any different with a flute?
In my experience, an intermediate flute, well padded and well-maintained, will easily outplay even a very high-end instrument that is out of adjustment or leaks.
The point--sometimes the answer isn't a new flute. Sometimes the answer some loving care to the one you already play.
That's not to say that a time for a new flute doesn't come. But I do think many students move up way too high, way too early. The time to get a high-end flute is when you are old enough to have earned the money to pay for it yourself, not with your parents' money, and not with credit.
By then you have learned enough to be able to appreciate the new flute and use it to its full advantage.
Just my $.02, probably worth exactly what you paid to read it.
--James
The point--sometimes the answer isn't a new flute. Sometimes the answer some loving care to the one you already play.
That's not to say that a time for a new flute doesn't come. But I do think many students move up way too high, way too early. The time to get a high-end flute is when you are old enough to have earned the money to pay for it yourself, not with your parents' money, and not with credit.
By then you have learned enough to be able to appreciate the new flute and use it to its full advantage.
Just my $.02, probably worth exactly what you paid to read it.
--James
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andreamc97
- Posts: 2
- Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2005 11:08 pm
- Location: California
Hello All,biggzh wrote:Anyways, then we have another 9th grader who practices 3 hours (every waking moment possible) every day, and is in the 10th grade band (1st chair there, so she's about to be moved up to the 11th grade band), and she has a $4000 flute.
I'm new to these boards. Anyways, on with my point. Although you should be practicing for a fair amount of time each day, you have to remember that practicing does not always mean pounding out a piece for hours on end. While this might work for some, I've found that I benefit more from playing for 30 focused minutes at a time. On average I practice about two hours a day and work on a piece at a time, rather than try to play everything in three hours. As Jim said, those are just my two cents.
Gemeinhardt Forever
I'm a Music Education Major, currently student teaching. I've been playing flute for 12 years (since 6th grade) and I have always used a Gemeinhardt.
I have used three different Gem. flutes: 2SP, 3SB, and now I have a 33SB. Maybe I'll get another one in a few years, but the current plan is that this one will be my professional flute for the rest of my life.
The way I see it, I don't need to have a super-expensive, high-end flute to play. It's my responsibility to keep my chops up to shape and keep playing. The flute won't hold me back from what I want to do with it, which is play it for the Glory of God and for fun.
However, if you want to run a world-circuit tour, Gemeinhardt probably won't last you very long, esp. if you practice fifty-bazillion hours a week. Go for a used Haynes or a new Miyazawa.
For Music!
I have used three different Gem. flutes: 2SP, 3SB, and now I have a 33SB. Maybe I'll get another one in a few years, but the current plan is that this one will be my professional flute for the rest of my life.
The way I see it, I don't need to have a super-expensive, high-end flute to play. It's my responsibility to keep my chops up to shape and keep playing. The flute won't hold me back from what I want to do with it, which is play it for the Glory of God and for fun.
However, if you want to run a world-circuit tour, Gemeinhardt probably won't last you very long, esp. if you practice fifty-bazillion hours a week. Go for a used Haynes or a new Miyazawa.
For Music!