Ok, perhaps some of you more advanced could help me. I've been playing flute for four years. This year, in first semester, I was nominated to pull off Flute Section Leader and later on I was put on as Woodwind Section leader. I already have a good grasp on the over all Woodwind section, but I've got a few questions just for the flute section.
In my section, there are only five of us. I'm the only senior, and the rest of the group has played for a range between one to four years. I also have an oboe in my Flute Section. He joined, and now we're called the Floboes. Haha. Anywho, my question is, with such a vast range of experience and talent, i'm having a hard time drilling into their heads the importance of practice and warm up. I myself do not know everything, which doesn't help, and my teacher doesn't play flute. I have turned to you all for guidance; show me the force.
1:) Other then the basic scales, does anyone know a good method of warming up other then basic scales with different sorts of rythem and dynamics? (I've always used that, and to warm up with a beginners book. I go through it for like ten minutes, then start on my work for that time).
2:) If there are any others in a position like mine, are there any fun ways they've found that could coax a special needs student into actually practicing and warming up? Or just a normal lazy person into actually practicing and warming up?
3:) Last but not least, anybody have any idea the best way, they've found, to practice how to hone a section's dynamics, pitch and intonation? I still haven't gotten one girl to start tongueing notes. Its strange, but I never noticed that she never tongued them. She accents the notes with her throat....
If anybody might be able to help me out, let me know. My email should be on there as well if anybody's interested in section talk.
Thanks,
Psyc0DarkDrag0n
Minor Problems with Leadership in Flute Section
Moderators: Classitar, pied_piper, Phineas
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psyc0darkdrag0n
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fluteguy18
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1. You could have them add warm ups by playing in intervals. So, you could have them play the C major scale in thirds. [which going up would be: C E D F E G F A G B D C B D C] Then do it backwards [C A B G A F G E F D E C D B C]
You could also have them play easier sort of Chorale style pieces to work on dynamics and pitch. I would make it something easy and something that they would recognise [ a church hymn or something else for example] and would enjoy making musical. It would also be a helpful tool to bring an audio recorder and tape them while they play so they can hear it back.
As for motivating students.... When I was in high school, I became Section leader [marching band and I became the Woodwind director when I was a Senior... but it was a new position created when we got a new band director my senior year] when I was a freshman, so for a while, I was very resented, and not listened to all that much. Most people once I became a Junior listened to me, but there was one girl who was in the same grade as I was who had jealousy issues. So, because she never got first chair, piccolo part, or section leader, she constantly worked to undermine my authority. So, in high school, to get the respect and response out of them that I needed, I had to be very serious and very stern[on the verge of being mean]. I wish I didnt have to be, but I had to in order to keep us unified [ we were a section of about 11 and I was the only guy].
So, I never got to do any of the fun stuff with my section.
But, I would set up a type of rewards system. If they can learn one passage, or do so many minutes practicing [and actually prove it] you could give them some candy [like reeses or snickers etc. etc.] or you could arrange that if they would do something for a certain amount of time, then there could be a themed flute party.
Also, a lot of respect and obediance for a leader comes from how much they like you, and how much they are bonded as a section. So, it would be a good idea to have regular get togethers so that way, they are more inclined to follow your instruction.
You could also have them play easier sort of Chorale style pieces to work on dynamics and pitch. I would make it something easy and something that they would recognise [ a church hymn or something else for example] and would enjoy making musical. It would also be a helpful tool to bring an audio recorder and tape them while they play so they can hear it back.
As for motivating students.... When I was in high school, I became Section leader [marching band and I became the Woodwind director when I was a Senior... but it was a new position created when we got a new band director my senior year] when I was a freshman, so for a while, I was very resented, and not listened to all that much. Most people once I became a Junior listened to me, but there was one girl who was in the same grade as I was who had jealousy issues. So, because she never got first chair, piccolo part, or section leader, she constantly worked to undermine my authority. So, in high school, to get the respect and response out of them that I needed, I had to be very serious and very stern[on the verge of being mean]. I wish I didnt have to be, but I had to in order to keep us unified [ we were a section of about 11 and I was the only guy].
So, I never got to do any of the fun stuff with my section.
But, I would set up a type of rewards system. If they can learn one passage, or do so many minutes practicing [and actually prove it] you could give them some candy [like reeses or snickers etc. etc.] or you could arrange that if they would do something for a certain amount of time, then there could be a themed flute party. Also, a lot of respect and obediance for a leader comes from how much they like you, and how much they are bonded as a section. So, it would be a good idea to have regular get togethers so that way, they are more inclined to follow your instruction.
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psyc0darkdrag0n
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Thanks, that might be helpful. I am having some problems with them listening to me. This is also a new thing for my school as well. I think that I'm going to have to unify us all a little more, to make us a little more comfortable with eachother. I find that that might have to be a little strict, but they are prtty good with listening to me. I think the biggest problem I'm going to have is to get them to practice more often.
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fluteguy18
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- Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 3:11 pm
Hey, I was in the same situation you were in during my freshman thru junior years, but the oboe player was my assistant section leader! Fun times! ^^
For warm-ups, I had them do it the same everytime so that it stuck with them and they'd always know how to warm-up to the point where it became second nature. It's broken down into three parts all done at 120bps. (We had to take short breaks in between each section for the arms to get a rest, hehe.)
Basic Warm-Up (scales):
- Bb scale in whole notes the quarter notes and then eighth notes (slur up, tongue down)
- Continue the eighth note pattern from Ab to C in circle of fifths
- Chromatics starting on Bb then going down half steps until Ab and then starting at Bb again
Third Exercises: these were done first in eight notes and repeated in sixteenth notes
- Third exercise #1: like the one fluteguy18 pointed out starting on Bb with slur two articulation
- Third exercise #2: then we did a second one that goes like this (Bb C D Bb, C D Eb C, etc etc) ascending to the octave and descending with tongue two slur two articulation
Tetrachords:
- Ab to C in 16 notes, slurring all
- After that, we chose one key to practice articulations on them (in this order: slur four, slur two, slur two tongue two, tongue two slur two, tongue all)
That was the basic marching band warm-up (which takes around 10 minutes). For concert band, we add the arpeggios and are adding minors along the way. Hopefully this warmup will give you some ideas to help with your section. ^^
Setting goals in the warmup makes a big difference. And stress scales a lot!!
I add to the warm up with more reviews for scales:
- Harmonics
- Long tone half-steps
- Two octaves (1 + a 2 e + a pattern.. CA All-State audition style)
- Two octave chromatic from C1 to C4.. I alternate starting from C1 or C4
- T&G Exercise #4
And it takes me a while to get into practicing real music cuz I like to take time being familiar with my basics. I think it takes me 20-30 min to warmup. I break up my practicing throughout the day over a couple of hours so I don't always start the long warmup if I've already done it before.
For warm-ups, I had them do it the same everytime so that it stuck with them and they'd always know how to warm-up to the point where it became second nature. It's broken down into three parts all done at 120bps. (We had to take short breaks in between each section for the arms to get a rest, hehe.)
Basic Warm-Up (scales):
- Bb scale in whole notes the quarter notes and then eighth notes (slur up, tongue down)
- Continue the eighth note pattern from Ab to C in circle of fifths
- Chromatics starting on Bb then going down half steps until Ab and then starting at Bb again
Third Exercises: these were done first in eight notes and repeated in sixteenth notes
- Third exercise #1: like the one fluteguy18 pointed out starting on Bb with slur two articulation
- Third exercise #2: then we did a second one that goes like this (Bb C D Bb, C D Eb C, etc etc) ascending to the octave and descending with tongue two slur two articulation
Tetrachords:
- Ab to C in 16 notes, slurring all
- After that, we chose one key to practice articulations on them (in this order: slur four, slur two, slur two tongue two, tongue two slur two, tongue all)
That was the basic marching band warm-up (which takes around 10 minutes). For concert band, we add the arpeggios and are adding minors along the way. Hopefully this warmup will give you some ideas to help with your section. ^^
Setting goals in the warmup makes a big difference. And stress scales a lot!!
I add to the warm up with more reviews for scales:
- Harmonics
- Long tone half-steps
- Two octaves (1 + a 2 e + a pattern.. CA All-State audition style)
- Two octave chromatic from C1 to C4.. I alternate starting from C1 or C4
- T&G Exercise #4
And it takes me a while to get into practicing real music cuz I like to take time being familiar with my basics. I think it takes me 20-30 min to warmup. I break up my practicing throughout the day over a couple of hours so I don't always start the long warmup if I've already done it before.
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fluttiegurl
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- Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 11:05 pm
Have a practice competition. I have a friend who has a practice-a-thon with her studio every Jan. Students write down how long they practice and at the end of the month, they compare notes. She gives awards (like fluteworld gift certificates and stuff like that) to the top people. I am not sure if it works, but she does it every year, and says that her students really get into it.
As for a special needs student, I have one in my studio now. What I have found is that if I play with her, she will warm up (like before recitals). We play long tones and simple 5 note scales. I also wrote out a few simple melodies (Mary Had a Little Lamb, etc) but with different rhythm emphasis and in different keys. She does not really grasp the scales at the moment, but she can play these simple melodies and enjoys the ryhthm "game". The idea is to focus on one element of playing that she is good at and gradually work in other elements. With my very young students (elementary age), we play a repetition game to warm up. I will tell them which note I am starting on and play a simple melody that I make up using only a few notes. This helps out a great deal especially since it is a group class as opposed to a one-on-one session. The kids love it and it helps to establish good habbits for the future. I believe this would work with older students using more complex notes and rhythms. Making it a game often motivates players of all ages.
As for a special needs student, I have one in my studio now. What I have found is that if I play with her, she will warm up (like before recitals). We play long tones and simple 5 note scales. I also wrote out a few simple melodies (Mary Had a Little Lamb, etc) but with different rhythm emphasis and in different keys. She does not really grasp the scales at the moment, but she can play these simple melodies and enjoys the ryhthm "game". The idea is to focus on one element of playing that she is good at and gradually work in other elements. With my very young students (elementary age), we play a repetition game to warm up. I will tell them which note I am starting on and play a simple melody that I make up using only a few notes. This helps out a great deal especially since it is a group class as opposed to a one-on-one session. The kids love it and it helps to establish good habbits for the future. I believe this would work with older students using more complex notes and rhythms. Making it a game often motivates players of all ages.
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psyc0darkdrag0n
- Posts: 8
- Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 5:49 pm
As for that, I'm talking highschool level teenagers who have played for atleast a year. I think with the two girls I have in my woodwind section its more of a thing of self confidence then anything. I personally have to sit down with both of them, more often then not switching between sax and flute, to get them to play, nevermind playing what we have in our repertoire. They are beginning to come forward a little more, and both of them are good with me helping them. They adore me because I actually take the time to do it, and am patience in doing so. I think that has helped.fluttiegurl wrote:Have a practice competition. I have a friend who has a practice-a-thon with her studio every Jan. Students write down how long they practice and at the end of the month, they compare notes. She gives awards (like fluteworld gift certificates and stuff like that) to the top people. I am not sure if it works, but she does it every year, and says that her students really get into it.
As for a special needs student, I have one in my studio now. What I have found is that if I play with her, she will warm up (like before recitals). We play long tones and simple 5 note scales. I also wrote out a few simple melodies (Mary Had a Little Lamb, etc) but with different rhythm emphasis and in different keys. She does not really grasp the scales at the moment, but she can play these simple melodies and enjoys the ryhthm "game". The idea is to focus on one element of playing that she is good at and gradually work in other elements. With my very young students (elementary age), we play a repetition game to warm up. I will tell them which note I am starting on and play a simple melody that I make up using only a few notes. This helps out a great deal especially since it is a group class as opposed to a one-on-one session. The kids love it and it helps to establish good habbits for the future. I believe this would work with older students using more complex notes and rhythms. Making it a game often motivates players of all ages.
However, its a little harder to get them to practice and warm up not only in band and musical rehearsals but also at home as well. There aren't enough people to hold competitions like such, and the band is definately too small and also changes each year. Its too bad how quickly the year ends I end up training and getting close to younger students. Its my fourth year; i still have another year to go before I myself am out of highschool. I'm a few too many credits behind. Haha. Either way, the band is too small for competitions within itself. Its too bad there isn't enough interest.
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fluttiegurl
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- Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 11:05 pm
Sounds like your bond with your section is really the key. I think you are making more progress than you think. Many of the students who come to me struggle with confidence. The best way to overcome that is encouragement.
Competition only takes two people. This could be done as easily in a small section as a large section (maybe easier). This could help with the at home practice, but it may not help at all. It is so simple that it may be worth a try. What about putting a chart on the wall (or in a notebook) and some kind of reward system that shows how much practice each student is doing at home? Just some ideas. Motivation to practice at home is a big issue with many students. Until they actually realize that it pays off, many students will never pick up the instrument at home. I have my students keep a practice journal in which they write when, how long, what, etc. Once a piece is learned, I have them write what it felt like to perform the piece for the first time. The ones who have sharred with me say that they feel as if they have made a greater accomplishment by practicing the pieces at home and notice the level of difficulty of the pieces they are playing as opposed to when they were just playing in ensemble.
Competition only takes two people. This could be done as easily in a small section as a large section (maybe easier). This could help with the at home practice, but it may not help at all. It is so simple that it may be worth a try. What about putting a chart on the wall (or in a notebook) and some kind of reward system that shows how much practice each student is doing at home? Just some ideas. Motivation to practice at home is a big issue with many students. Until they actually realize that it pays off, many students will never pick up the instrument at home. I have my students keep a practice journal in which they write when, how long, what, etc. Once a piece is learned, I have them write what it felt like to perform the piece for the first time. The ones who have sharred with me say that they feel as if they have made a greater accomplishment by practicing the pieces at home and notice the level of difficulty of the pieces they are playing as opposed to when they were just playing in ensemble.
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psyc0darkdrag0n
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- Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 5:49 pm
This is actually gonna sound kind of funny, but I haven't practiced at home for anything in the longest time. I make more progress, I find, with ten minutes alone with myself while I'm warming up then when I do when I'm at home for hours at a time. It's hard to practice at home; everyone here works midnights at my house and theres rarely any time to practice when every person in the house sleeps different times of the day or night. I find it so much easier to take an hour aftr school and practice; there there is no distractions. I think that's the same with them, but they don't play the same way I do. I can take a peice, and give it a few, and I might be able to make it sound decent. I can really play, but then again Im the senior with the most experience. The rest of my section could top me if they tried, but I don't think they have the balance right now.
I've talked to two people in the section already about some problems, and it seems that some of the members are having problems with friends or at home at the moment. This is why I wanted us to be more open with eachother. I noticed that after the one girl told me whatever is happening with her friends, right afterwards she was more able to concentrate getting it off her chest and talking to someone who is a bit more older. With a little guidance, or just listening, it really helped. I think that's whats going on right now with my section. I am, however, going to stress the importance of being open with eachother.
I was away for two weeks out of town and out of school about a month ago. I had a funeral and i was sick the first week, then i was a few hours out of town for a sick grandfather. I have a feeling that not mentioning that to them really started this, so I'm going to have to fix that. The other section members have been a bit cold to me, but I think that's my fault. I did mention to talk to some of them, so its not too bad. We shall see. As for practicing, I talked to some of them about that today as well. Majority of my section is playing for a school musical at the moment which involves rehearsals every day after school, usually for atleast and hour and a half. Personally, that isn't a lot of playing, but it is for them so i understand why they haven't taken their instruments home since the new semester started and the musical rehearsals.
I've talked to two people in the section already about some problems, and it seems that some of the members are having problems with friends or at home at the moment. This is why I wanted us to be more open with eachother. I noticed that after the one girl told me whatever is happening with her friends, right afterwards she was more able to concentrate getting it off her chest and talking to someone who is a bit more older. With a little guidance, or just listening, it really helped. I think that's whats going on right now with my section. I am, however, going to stress the importance of being open with eachother.
I was away for two weeks out of town and out of school about a month ago. I had a funeral and i was sick the first week, then i was a few hours out of town for a sick grandfather. I have a feeling that not mentioning that to them really started this, so I'm going to have to fix that. The other section members have been a bit cold to me, but I think that's my fault. I did mention to talk to some of them, so its not too bad. We shall see. As for practicing, I talked to some of them about that today as well. Majority of my section is playing for a school musical at the moment which involves rehearsals every day after school, usually for atleast and hour and a half. Personally, that isn't a lot of playing, but it is for them so i understand why they haven't taken their instruments home since the new semester started and the musical rehearsals.
I know how problems in the section feel...I have 7 flutes one oboe and one guitar (don't ask how that one happened)...anyway i have all different personalities from the girl who wants to play professionally to those where they do it for the social activities...tensions get very high because some of my girls are very catty...i've had to go to my director on several occasions to help me work things out because approaching one of my girls in the wrong way will get the concert master breathing down my neck...does anyone have any idea how to help ease tensions here
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psyc0darkdrag0n
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- Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 5:49 pm
hmmzzz
Well, I'd just say normally that maybe you guys should bond some more; the more comfortable with eachother you are the more easier it will be to play or to bond with. I've dealt with a very large mass of catty girls. At this point, if they want to be catty with others in the band or especially in the section, they aren't the type of material you would want in a band. You all should get along (to a degree) to be able to play well, but theres always loop holes. If you can all play well together no matter how you like eachother, then i guess that rule doesn't apply. However, if they make you uncomfortable or others uncomfortable, perhaps you have to have a talk with them to determine whether or not they should be in your ensemble. If they were only there to waste time and had no ulterior motives to be there, then tell them that if they don't wanna be nice maybe they shouldn't be there. From my experience, its either pep talks or 'get outta the band' talks. Its too bad, but if someone doesn't want to make the commitment to be there, or makes others uncomfortable, they either need a serious talk or they need to readjust themselves.
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flutepicc06
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- Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 11:34 pm
Re: hmmzzz
There's nothing wrong with having a talk with your your section or members of your section about poor behavior (assuming you're a section leader or someone else given authority over the section) as long as it is done respectfully and privately. Sometimes such discussions are necessary. However, you should not be having "get out of band" talks with people. If anyone should be doing that, it's the band director, and then only as a last resort, if all else fails to correct their behavior.psyc0darkdrag0n wrote:From my experience, its either pep talks or 'get outta the band' talks. Its too bad, but if someone doesn't want to make the commitment to be there, or makes others uncomfortable, they either need a serious talk or they need to readjust themselves.
i guess part of the problem is with me ive always delt with very small sections for a long time i was the only flute...now there are alot more and there's one girl in particular who believes that she is better than me...we did auditions for the first time this year (we're a very young band program) and i managed to place ahead of her but just barely...she's taken lessons for a long time and does know more about some things than I do. I've recently joined another band and am on a steep learning curve. What i've managed to do with her is acknowledge that she does know some things and try to create middle ground
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psyc0darkdrag0n
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- Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 5:49 pm
Re: hmmzzz
Those talks are usually a last resort. Especially with high school kids. Fortunately, I've had to have the 'determine where your goals are' talk alot more then i've had to have the 'your not welcome in the band' talk. Section leaders are to do that, with the concert master's permission. We also do recruiting if we need to, like I've been doing. Our band is dwindling, but it grows to a certain degree every year.flutepicc06 wrote:There's nothing wrong with having a talk with your your section or members of your section about poor behavior (assuming you're a section leader or someone else given authority over the section) as long as it is done respectfully and privately. Sometimes such discussions are necessary. However, you should not be having "get out of band" talks with people. If anyone should be doing that, it's the band director, and then only as a last resort, if all else fails to correct their behavior.psyc0darkdrag0n wrote:From my experience, its either pep talks or 'get outta the band' talks. Its too bad, but if someone doesn't want to make the commitment to be there, or makes others uncomfortable, they either need a serious talk or they need to readjust themselves.
I've had to deal with a girl like that once. It was my experience over her knowledge that landed me a section leader position. We decided, mutually, that we would both share the position, or atleast keep me as the leader but I would rely on her for her knowledge. We figured it was better then fighting over stupid things. Actually, more often then not I try to keep the band like a democratic type of thing. I felt that it worked better, and I don't like harping or making decisions without talking to them first, especially about gigs. I'd rather keep them in on it.
Hopefully I've been some help.
