Demonic conductors.

fluteguy18 · Post by **fluteguy18** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 9:34 am

Anyone ever had an absolutely demonic conductor? Our Symphonic band is currently about to perform in a concert next week, and a guest conductor is having us play [under his direction] Sinfonians, a concert march. Yesterday was his first rehearsal with us, and it was mortifying. He was nasty, and rude to everyone. Then, when my picc solo came up [there is only a snare drum and the piccolo playing at this point] I began playing, but he cut me off halfway into the first measure. He then proceeded into a 12 minute rant about how badly I play, and that I need to work on the solo [despite the fact that I have been practicing it for weeks, and it was actually quite good]. Needless to say, I was made a fool for no reason. He was so ridiculously hateful and intimidating [he is the first conductor EVER to have intimidated me, and that is really saying something] that so much pressure and aggrivation was bouncing off me onto the people around me, and THEY were getting upset. And they werent the ones being harrassed!

Anyone ever met anyone like this? I know being a performance major and being in this field I will run into more conductors like this, but I just want to hear stories about how others have handled these monsters.

Claiken · Post by **Claiken** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 9:58 am

the worst ive ever seen is from my band conductor (outside of school) basically it was coming close to performance time, and this one person had a solo. so he warned her that if she couldnt do the solo he would pass it off to someone else. well, she couldnt do it so he centered her out a little.

I know if it were me i would take that personal, but @ the same time, i dont blame him. opening night was the next night and he needed us to sound good.

atoriphile · Post by **atoriphile** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 10:25 am

Fluteguy -

It sounds like you and the conductor have artistic differences. I'm sure you played it very well according to how you feel it should be played, but obviously the conductor didn't agree.

Did he provide any constructive criticism? If not, what in particular did he criticise about your performance? Since he's the conductor, you have no choice but to play it the way he wants, even if it sound horrible to you. Hey, you never know, maybe you'll like it better his way!

Sometimes in life, you just have to deal with difficult people. It happens not only in band, but also at work, at the grocery store, in a restaurant, etc. Get used to it!

sidekicker · Post by **sidekicker** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 12:29 pm

There are crummy people in every profession, but it has been my experience that the type of person you describe is much more common in the arts than other fields. Virtually everyone considers themselves an "artist", and many of those believe their artistry cannot be expressed without cutting down someone else.

One of the reasons I got out of the full-time music profession, aside from the inability to really make a decent living, was the droves of very odd people the music field seems to attract (nobody here, of course

). I've had conductors like you describe. But I've also sat next to the most atrocious oboists. I was even slapped on the back of my head once during a rehearsal by a principal clarinetist because while adjusting my chair, I unwittingly moved the cord that went to her light stand and almost disrupted her little reed cup apparatus (she also called me a few choice names that I won't repeat here). First class, true blue, nutcase. I know strange people can be found anywhere, but I suspect the sometimes-neurotic and highly competitive spirit many musicians naturally have brings out the worst in them and makes it more likely you will run into someone like that.

The best way to deal with it, IMO, is to either (a) reconsider your career choice because you are going to encounter that just about everywhere you go in one form or another in professional music making, or (b) just ignore it because chances are great that those around you sympathize with your plight even though they don't say anything; after all, they might be the next one the conductor embarasses.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but what you experienced is not uncommon and you can expect to encounter it again in your career about, say, a zillion more times

.

SK

Phineas · Post by **Phineas** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 1:41 pm

sidekicker

I got away from being a fulltime musician for almost the same reason. I think there are too many people that use being an artist as an excuse to be an unreasonable a**hole. This is the reason I did not pursure music as a major in college. IMHO, performing arts is by far the hardest major in college.

Fluteguy
The key with dealing with management is never taking things personally. You are there to do a job. As long as they do not tell you to go home(fire you), then you are doing a good enough job. All of the rest of the bull is just to make your boss(conductor) feel like he/she is doing something. Take the people that are in bootcamp in the Army. At the end of their training, they learn to blank out of the bull, and listen for orders without being distracted.

Whatever you do, NEVER let someone like this ruin your focus. Let it roll off your back.

Phineas

fluttiegurl · Post by **fluttiegurl** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 3:26 pm

A little off the subject, but my college conductor used to make us sight read on stage at the beginning of concerts. That sure sets the mood for what is to come

I guess his plan did work. We all became MUCH better sight readers as time went by.

fluteguy18 · Post by **fluteguy18** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 5:01 pm

I wasnt really offended by him really. Yeah, while he was being overbearing I felt horrible, but afterwards, I was fine. There was no constructive criticism whatsoever.

He was criticizing my articulation [which after I played if for my professor, she said my articulation was close to flawless], but I really think [along with my professor] he meant more length, tone, and charachter. So, we worked on it for about ten minutes... added some alternate fingerings so certain turns didnt sound awkward, took a new look at the grace notes, etc. etc.

So.... I will see how this goes on Monday and Tuesday. If he really doesnt like it, he doesnt have a back up besides me so he will have to try to comprimise his artistic vision with my 'incorrect' one if I cant learn his 'correct' version.

However, I really see that in fact, he is the vulnerable one out of the two of us. In the concert, I am the only one who is playing for those 15-20 seconds, so really in the concert, it is my decision. He may boil over, but I wont play something in a fashion that I dont feel confident in. I would rather have a fresh interpretation of this already established piece, and sound confident than play it in a very stuffy self conscious manner. Besides, the 'new' spin I put on it today in my lesson added a lot of charachter and my studio teacher really likes it.

sooooo...... hopefully he wont boil over and I will be able to survive the wrath of this man with a bad yellow comb over..... if all goes well, I might actually please him.....

Either way, I am not about to let someone deter me from what I really love, least of all this man. I know there are some ridiculous people in this profession, but you can choose to see the best in people. If you do that, then things arent as bad as they seem.

This guy [regardless of his poor people skills] is very charitable, and has done wonders for the music world in this state. So, I will respect him for his works, and not his attitude.

TheScarecrow · Post by **TheScarecrow** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 8:16 pm

sidekicker wrote:I've also sat next to the most atrocious oboists

SK

Oboe is my main instrument and I have noticed that oboe players tend to have the worst attitudes.

I do my best to be very friendly and polite but sadly that has not gotten me far.

On the first day of my freshman year, I say hi and introduce myself to the senior first chair (for the time being) oboe player and she turns and says, "I'm Jessica and I'm better than you.". She then goes on to yank my oboe out of my mouth when I quietly play the solo in our sightreading music during a little break in the practice. After doing this, she goes, "Let's get this straight. I'm the oboe player in this band. You don't get to play MY part."

On day two, the chair results come out and I beat her by 250 points. She then switches instrments and never speaks to me again.

The key is to ignore these people. Beat them with ability, not words.

fluteguy18 · Post by **fluteguy18** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 8:49 pm

oddly enough, the oboe players are the nicest people at my university....

Mark · Post by **Mark** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 9:15 pm

look y'all, I don't do music for a living, mainly because I took too many
years off to play on the high seas..

but they're right, Fluteguy... you will run into people like that fairly often,
and in all walks of life.

Best bet, is play it the way you think you will do your best, and if he boils
over at you afterwards, walk away let it roll off and walk away from him.

as TheScarecrow said:

The key is to ignore these people. Beat them with ability, not words.

sidekicker · Post by **sidekicker** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 6:13 am

TheScarecrow wrote: Oboe is my main instrument and I have noticed that oboe players tend to have the worst attitudes.

At the risk of generalizing, I have to say that this has been my experience in every venue I've played. Double reed instruments are extremely difficult to play, so perhaps that is what tips them over the edge. I also think there's a little bit of megalomania given that the entire orchestra still has to tune to the oboe - an antiquated custom I'd love to see go down the pipes along with concertmasters getting their own special entrance, bow, and applause. I did know a pretty cool English horn player, though

.

TheScarecrow wrote:The key is to ignore these people. Beat them with ability, not words.

Wise words with which I totally agree. It's really the only way out of these types of situations other than a physical departure.

By the way, Scarecrow, what did you end up deciding to perform on your band concert (sorry if I missed your announcement)?

SK

fluttiegurl · Post by **fluttiegurl** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 7:14 am

I have found that the double reed players I have worked with are all quite humble and at the same time AMAZING musicians. Those reeds could definately tip someone over the edge, but just like it is with the pro flute players I know (some of whom record and tour year round), the better they are, the less threatened they feel, hence the better the attitudes.

sidekicker · Post by **sidekicker** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 12:21 pm

My experience has been the exact opposite with our double reed friends. I have yet to meet a humble oboist who did not complain incessantly about reeds, everyone else's "bad pitch", how much harder this and that is to play on the oboe, how their instrument is so much more delicate than anybody else's, the hours Wendy's is open, the fact February usually has only 28 days, yadda yadda yadda.

The better they are, the worse their disposition seems to be. I've played next to fantastic oboists who I wouldn't allow through the front door of my home. But, again, it's probably not possible to generalize something like this outside of personal experiences. I've also encountered plenty of fruitcake flutists, too; just not as many.

Personally, I'd like to see this type of "artistry" eliminated from our concert halls. Making music for money is a job just like any other profession, and IMO bad behavior should not be excused simply because someone does that job well or fancies themselves an "artist". If I acted like I've seen many musicians do in my current profession (which is not music related), I'd be fired.

SK

TheScarecrow · Post by **TheScarecrow** » Sat Apr 14, 2007 10:20 am

Oboe players are built up to feel important. They are constantly singled out through solos, tuning, ammount of players, and the difficulty of the instrument. This certainly doesn't excuse them acting the way they sometimes do, but you can sort of understand where it comes from. Flutes learn to play in a group from a young age where as often times the oboe is the only one in the band.

Also once you learn to play the oboe, it is very easy to pick up a second instrument and sadly we often make it very clear the latter is the easier of the two.

All those elements combined and you get a stuck up player. This isn't always the case because I am not one to act like that and many other players don't act like this either, but fairly often it can happen.

Also SK I did pick a peice. I'm cutting it down a little bit but I decided on the Cantabile et Presto.

kflutist · Post by **kflutist** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 7:26 am

Kudos to Fluteguy18 for playing the solo, we did Sinfonians for national contest last year for the band where i play 2nd flute...all of the flutes play the solo after the piccolo has played through it once, it's not easy. As for demonic conductors yes my very first from 4th through 8th grade. He would have probably been alright had he been able to hear, been about 20 years younger and the kids have been 6 years older. We were just learning how to play and he would yell at us and swear at us when we didn't know how to do something. He reacently got sacked from the job at that school for locking a kid in a closet. The only reason that I'm still playing is because my parents forced me to my first year of highschool and i had a much better conductor.