Serious answers, please. Looking for some real assistance.

[Luttibelle]

Okay, after over 20 years, I decided I wanted to pick up a flute again and resume playing. I thought, 'okay, it's been a while, and I'll have to re-learn some stuff, so I don't want to spend a lot of money'. Well, you get what you pay for.

The flute I wound up with is okay - for an extreme beginner. My daughter, who is learning the clarinet in her school band, is now teaching herself at home with this flute and the book I got to go with it. But (surprise to me!), I'm better than the flute. It's okay quality for her, but not for me.

I'm still not wanting to spend thousands of dollars on one, like I've seen you can at some websites. But I need a good QUALITY flute, an upper intermediate level one. It is still just for personal enjoyment, not concert performance or anything. Can someone suggest a good brand/model for, say, under $500 bucks?

Or if there is no way around it, and I have to dig WAY deep into my pockets, (1) what is the best flute (value, performance, etc) for someone who maybe on a scale of one to ten is finding out she's a good 6 1/2 or so now, heading toward an 8 or 9, but still just wants it for personal enjoyment and not professional performance? (2) Do any of the better companys (Geiminherdt, Yamaha, etc) offer payment plans? (3) Do any of the companys who rent-to-own student flutes offer the same deal with better quality instruments? Thanks!

[fluteguy18]

First, I recommend doing a search on this webpage called FAQ, and you want to read the most recent one . Read the whole thing [yes, I know it is long] and you should be able to get a lot of information out of that.

As for getting a good quality intermediate model for less than $500.... that will be a bit tricky to make sure that you dont end up with something that needs a lot of work. If you are only looking in that price range, look for used intermediate flutes, and you can get those quite a bit cheaper than they are new. So, I recommend looking at the following companies: Pearl, Sonare, Armstrong, Gemeinhardt [although I would probably find an alternative because other companies can sometimes give you more bang for your buck], Emerson, Jupiter, Altus , Yamaha etc. etc. Any of these intermediate line flutes new, will set you back anywhere from $1000-$2000. But, used, you can probably find them between $500-1100.

If you keep looking however, you could probably find a decent used handmade flute like the Muramatsu EX, or a Miyazawa 102, or something similiar quite cheaply [in relation to their initial cost]. If you go for a used handmade model, [and in relatively good condition] you will definately get the most bang for your buck [because the craftmanship is of MUCH higher quality]. So, even though it sounds like for now it is outside of your $500 ideal price range, I would recommend saving up a little, then investing a bit more in a used upper intermediate [or used handmade] flute.

As for which flute is best.... there really is no 'best' flute, but rather different flutes. We are all different players, therefore, we have different tastes. For example, I love Miyazawa flutes, and I hate Powell flutes. My flute professor is exactly the opposite. She loves Powell, but dislikes any japanese made flute. So, all I can recommend, is that you try everything, and get the one that you like the most. As for best in quality, if you are presented with the option of buying a new solid silver intermediate flute, or a used plated handmade flute, the handmade flute [given that it is in good condition] is probably the better deal. Even though it isnt solid silver, [or it could be, depending on the specific flute and budget you are working with] these makers take extreme care to produce a superior instrument. Therefore, their plating techniques are second to none, and unless you have very acidic skin, you shouldnt worry about the plating rubbing off for a very long time.

As for companies offering payment plans.... I dont think very many [if any at all] offer a payment plan. And typically from my expieriance with upgrading from student to intermediate, and intermediate to handmade, retailers usually wont offer any sort of 'rent to own' program for any instrument that is intermediate level and above. However, some places do have partnerships with a local loan company. Often, the way this works, is that the loan company will take a look at your credit score, then, if the company says you are okay, then the store will let you do a installment plan. But, you have to jump the hurdle of a credit score first. I dont know exactly how many places will do that [some makers will do it too, for example, Miyazawa is in the process of switching loan companies, and wont be offering any form of payment plan until all of the details are worked out], but a few do. Specifically, Miles Ahead Music in Louisville Kentucky will do it, and they are willing to do business across the country.

Good luck with your search!.

[MeLizzard]

If you're heading for an "8 or 9", don't handicap yourself with a poor or even mediocre instrument. You'll be pressed to find anything truly good in the $500-$1000 range, but maybe shop around for a used Armstrong (at least a 303, or an 80B) or Yamaha (no lower than 400 series). There are more choices than ever, so it's now easier to find a better flute for less money. I wouldn't recommend Gemeinhardt, after playing two for many years, and longing for better tone, response and intonation almost the whole time!?! There are just better choices these days for the same amount of money. If you can at all bear the wait, it might be better to save a little more $$$ and look at Sonare (Powell headjoint, lower-priced body), Amadeus (Haynes head & lower-priced body), Azumi (Altus with good head & less-expensive body), Miyazawa, or higher-end Yamahas (500, 600). Retailers often offer specials, including financing--12-months-same-as-cash is popular around here, which gives one plenty of time to pay it off interest-free. Most shops rent only beginners' instruments, and not the more-expensive stuff (liability). Happy shopping, and glad you're back!

[flutepicc06]

I think the answer has pretty much been covered for you, but out of curiosity, what kind of flute did you end up with that's only okay for an extreme beginner?

[flutegeek1992]

I agree with everyone else in this post. I was a person who advanced VERY quickly as a beginner, and I had to advance my instrument with me 2x now in the 5 years I've been playing. My first flute was an older Olds model. Was it good for me in 5th grade band? YES. And, I only spent $100 on it and I still consider it the best buy I ever got. My second flute was a Gemeinhardt 3SB. I'm afraid I paid over what it was worth and I quickly found myself longing for a new flute. Could it have lasted me longer? Yes, but I wanted the best and I had a dream flute already in mind. My newest flute is everything I wanted in a flute for a price that didn't break the banks. I got a Pearl 765-RBE CODA and I love it. I love the tone I get, I love how it feels, and the split E was worth it to me. I was playing on my instructers Howell Roberts Cocabola head joint, and I'm now planning on buying my own. The Howell Roberts head joint gives me the projection and warmth I love, and is great for solo work--while my pearl headjoint is great for group playing and fast classical music. Its really up to you! You should:
*try all the flutes you can find in your price range (or maybe out of it!). You may find that the few hundred dollars more really makes a difference and you want to save up!
*consider a used flute. You can find some real gems out there. If you want a vintage flute, pawn shops can be amazing. I know a man who plays in the local symphony who bought a Louis Lot flute from 1886 for $20 and spent nearly $600 repairing it. It was still cheaper then a new flute, and he really does sound nice on it.
*ask a professional for help. Consider finding someone who can help you narrow down the choices. Maybe a high school student who plays well, a teacher, a symphony player...they'll help you find the flute that really fits you.
*come back here and ask for advice! While we shouldn't be a total source, most of the members here are able to sort out the really nice flutes from the ones that aren't worth the money. Usually its a matter of personal opinion, but it may also just be the facts of the flutes construction.

Have fun flute shopping and remember to come back here and tell us what you end up with!

[Luttibelle]

[quote="flutepicc06"]I think the answer has pretty much been covered for you, but out of curiosity, what kind of flute did you end up with that's only okay for an extreme beginner?[/quote]

I got a Cecilio 'Silver' flute from a vendor called Austin's Bazaar through Amazon.com. Yeah, yeah, I know - you get what you pay for.

It only cost $135, so I jumped just to get SOMETHING and see if I could still remember my fingering and produce a note of any sort.

[sinebar]

If you're heading for an "8 or 9", don't handicap yourself with a poor or even mediocre instrument. You'll be pressed to find anything truly good in the $500-$1000 range, but maybe shop around for a used Armstrong (at least a 303, or an 80B) or Yamaha (no lower than 400 series). There are more choices than ever, so it's now easier to find a better flute for less money. I wouldn't recommend Gemeinhardt, after playing two for many years, and longing for better tone, response and intonation almost the whole time!?! There are just better choices these days for the same amount of money. If you can at all bear the wait, it might be better to save a little more $$$ and look at Sonare (Powell headjoint, lower-priced body), Amadeus (Haynes head & lower-priced body), Azumi (Altus with good head & less-expensive body), Miyazawa, or higher-end Yamahas (500, 600). Retailers often offer specials, including financing--12-months-same-as-cash is popular around here, which gives one plenty of time to pay it off interest-free. Most shops rent only beginners' instruments, and not the more-expensive stuff (liability). Happy shopping, and glad you're back!

So my Yamaha 381 is no good?

[MeLizzard]

I wouldn't call it "no good", but it's basically a silver (CY cut, same as the 400s) headjoint on a slightly modified, open-hole 200 (beginner's flute) body. I've observed that, if students are progressing quickly, they'll soon outplay the 300 series flutes. Many strong students have recently been making a bigger step-up commitment than in previous years, and have quickly leapt from their beginner models to Armstrong Heritage, Yamaha 500 and 600 models, and even entry-level Muramatsu, Altus, and Miyazawa flutes, after a couple of years of serious study. Usually, their parents are buying the flutes, and don't want to buy one that'll have to be upgraded in just a year or two. If a person is playing pretty well, and progressing quickly, sometimes saving a little more money and buying a flute a step or two up the flute "food chain" (relative to one's goals, naturally) is a wiser investment.

[fluteguy18]

I second what Melizzard just said. But, dont be discouraged, becuase the first chair flutist at my university plays a Yamaha 381. She is definately a good player. So, yes it is a decent instrument, but there are more favorable options higher up in the 'food/price chain'. As long as you are happy with your flute, then that is fine.

If I am assuming correct, [if I am wrong, please dont be offended] you are a student [middle school/high school??] and for the time being, the instrument you have is perfectly fine.

Besides, when my flute professor was playing in an orchestra in mexico, the 2nd chair flutist preferred to play on a Gemeinhardt 2sp, and did so quite often. When I upgraded to a handmade flute, I had the option to go fairly high up in the price range for silver flutes, but when it came down to what I liked, I liked one of the 'lower end' handmade Miyazawa flutes the best. So, instead of paying about 5-7k for a flute I sort of liked, I only paid 4.5k for a flute that I absolutely love [and tubing material wise, it is identical to yours-- sterling head, nickle silver body and foot].

[Phineas]

Big Fin's 2 cent.

When I was in Japan, I noticed a lot of beginners buying 300 series flutes. This does not mean they are bad. However, if you look, and play on a 200 series flute, and a comparable 300, they play very similar. In fact, the only difference between a 281 and a 381 is the 381 has a solid silver headjoint. I will even argue the fact the 400 series is not much of an upgrade from a 300. The 400 series has the same body type as the 300 series except the 400 series is all silver. Yamahas really do not change that much until the the 500 series where the body style changes, and they go to the EC head joint.

The 381 is a fine instrument, just not much of a step up from a 200 series. As far as I am concern, the 400 series is not much of a step up either. At least not with a CY head joint. Find a 400 series and get an EC headjoint, now you are talkin!

[fluttiegurl]

Also keep in mind that when Yamaha started making flutes, they began with producing a handmade instrument. When they decided to produce student flutes, they took the basic ideas from that.

[Baz]

Generally speaking, you get what you pay for. Up to a point. There's a definite psychological effect when you're paying $4,000+ for an instrument - otherwise known as 'the more it costs the better it must be and/or the better I sound' argument. Doesn't necessarily follow. I've heard of many players who prefer nickel silver bodies to solid silver - though I subscribe to the school of thought that material makes a negligible difference to tone (backed up by a few experienced players and techs I've talked to). What makes a great flute is the DESIGN not the precious metal content, especially the design of the head. That's why the Yamaha student/intermediate flutes are such great value for money. Like much else, there are diminshing returns on investment when it comes to 'upgrading'. Don't underestimate the hype and advertising that accounts for much of the market for 'intermediate' or 'conservatoire' instruments. By a long way, the single biggest factor in the sound of ANY flute is the player.

So, to the original poster, I'd suggest a basic Yamaha. No scouring the web, no Ebay, no confusion, no nightmares. Not expensive for a NEW one, great tone, well engineered instrument that will last years if well looked after, and at least until you know what you want out of your flute.

[MonikaFL]

The 381 is a fine instrument, just not much of a step up from a 200 series. As far as I am concern, the 400 series is not much of a step up either. At least not with a CY head joint. Find a 400 series and get an EC headjoint, now you are talkin!

I play an 874H Yamaha with a CY headjoint. It was a really close call between the EC and the CY for me, when I was deciding on which headjoint to get with the flute. The EC had such a refined sound, and was so easy to play on... but the CY gave me the extra darkness I wanted. I have to work a bit harder on the CY (i.e. keep my chops up at all times!) but I've been very happy with it.

I definitely agree w/your comments about the 300/400 series. The 500's are where you really notice changes.

So, to the original poster, I'd suggest a basic Yamaha. No scouring the web, no Ebay, no confusion, no nightmares. Not expensive for a NEW one, great tone, well engineered instrument that will last years if well looked after, and at least until you know what you want out of your flute.

I agree here too. I played on a Yamaha 200 series all the way through my last year of junior college (when I got a Gemeinhardt intermediate model, which I only had for about 2 years before looking for a professional flute). That student Yamaha was a beautiful instrument w/a gorgeous sound, I didn't have any major repair issues (and very few minor ones)... just a solid, very good instrument all around.

[Buttercup]

Have you considered buying a decent student-level flute like a Yamaha, and adding a handmade headjoint to it? That's what I did, the yamaha mechanism wears well if kept in order, and the headjoint makes all the difference with tone colour, projection, and flexibility. Just a thought.