Metal V.s Wood Piccs

FLflutist · Post by **FLflutist** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 4:41 pm

Which is best for what?

I intend on playing a few peices on piccolo next year, and I really like metal piccs because of how they feel and it's easier for me to get a good sound out of. Wooden ones tend to be a bit harder for me. :/

flutepicc06 · Post by **flutepicc06** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 4:58 pm

There is no definitive best. Wood piccs are not suitable for outdoor work, so if you're marching, wood should be out of the question, or you'll need a second piccolo. Metal is great for outdoor work, as is plastic (resin/ABS), but if you're in an area with large temperature changes, metal piccolos can have larger issues with pitch than plastic piccs. Wood is generally used for concert work, as it generally (but not always) offers a darker, richer sound. However, I've played plenty of bright sounding wood piccs and some exquisitely dark metal piccs, so this is not always the case. More important than what material you play on is what is comfortable for you and what allows you to get the sound you want. I use a grenadilla picc for concert music, but also have played my metal piccs in concert. I use either a plastic or metal picc outdoors. The more comfortable you can become with your instrument, and the better you get to know it, the better the results. There are some extremely expensive piccolos out there, but just like with flutes, a more expensive instrument won't necessarily help you play any better.

TheScarecrow · Post by **TheScarecrow** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 4:59 pm

The wooden embochoure is different than the metal one because it doesn't have a lip plate. I think that marching should have metal piccolos or plastic with metal heads. I prefer the warmer sound of a wooden piccolo for any other type of playing. It is more difficult to get used to, but has more potential for a large range of sounds.

flutepicc06 · Post by **flutepicc06** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 5:04 pm

TheScarecrow wrote:The wooden embochoure is different than the metal one because it doesn't have a lip plate. I think that marching should have metal piccolos or plastic with metal heads. I prefer the warmer sound of a wooden piccolo for any other type of playing. It is more difficult to get used to, but has more potential for a large range of sounds.

Just because the outside edge of the embouchure plate is not defined does not mean it should be any more difficult. The lip plate is still there, just surrounded by wood (in most cases). And the embouchure will be the same between a wood picc and a metal one, though a wood picc may feel slightly different on the chin. Wooden piccs are not always warmer sounding, as I mentioned above. A good quality metal picc (Haynes for example) will likely have more potential for tone and dynamics than a low quality wooden picc. As I said above, it's less about the material, and more about the player's comfort.

MonikaFL · Post by **MonikaFL** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 9:08 pm

Some wooden piccs have a lip plate (such as some of the Hammigs) -- so definitely check around for those and see if they feel any better for you.

I wouldn't recommend a metal picc for anything except marching band.

flutepicc06 · Post by **flutepicc06** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 9:10 pm

MonikaFL wrote:
I wouldn't recommend a metal picc for anything except marching band.

Would you mind if I ask why? As I mentioned, I've played some exquisite metal piccolos (albeit well above the level that most high school/college players own), and I would certainly be willing to play those in concert, despite the fact that I have access to a wooden picc.

MonikaFL · Post by **MonikaFL** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 9:18 pm

All-metal piccolos don't tend to blend well in concert setting. There may be a few exceptions, but I wonder what else has to be sacrificed to warm up the sound. All-metal piccs are by nature very bright. (Bright, not to be confused with clarity or beauty of the tone -- I'm talking about the timbre) You might be able to get away with it in a concert band setting... but for anything more serious (i.e. orchestra, chamber music), plastic w/a silver head, all plastic, or wooden is ideal. That added warmth helps you blend no matter what other instruments you're playing with at any given time in a piece.

There is a lot of great piccolo information on professional piccolo player Christine Beard's website, she discusses this kind of thing further: www.piccolohq.com

flutepicc06 · Post by **flutepicc06** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 9:30 pm

MonikaFL wrote:All-metal piccolos don't tend to blend well in concert setting. There may be a few exceptions, but I wonder what else has to be sacrificed to warm up the sound. All-metal piccs are by nature very bright. (Bright, not to be confused with clarity or beauty of the tone -- I'm talking about the timbre) You might be able to get away with it in a concert band setting... but for anything more serious (i.e. orchestra, chamber music), plastic w/a silver head, all plastic, or wooden is ideal. That added warmth helps you blend no matter what other instruments you're playing with at any given time in a piece.

There is a lot of great piccolo information on professional piccolo player Christine Beard's website, she discusses this kind of thing further: www.piccolohq.com

The fact that there are exceptions seems to me to speak to the fact that something other than material can have a great impact on the sound of the piccolo. While there certainly are bright metal piccs out there, there are also bright wooden piccs, dark metal, etc. It's not possible to definitively say that any material has a certain acoustic property. I can tell you that in the metal piccs I mentioned, absolutely nothing was sacrificed to warm up the sound. They were very high quality instruments put out by some of the most respected names in flutes and piccolos. Response, pitch, tonal possibilities...It was all there. I have played plastic body/metal headjoint piccs, as well as all plastic piccs, and can say that none played at even close to the same level as some of the metal piccs I have playtested. Just as with flutes, material has to be a personal choice, but I don't think it's fair to relegate metal piccolos exclusively to the marching field.

I am familiar with Christine Beard, and would be interested in reading her take on this problem, but unfortunately her website will not display correctly for me. Perhaps you could provide a link directly to where she discusses material since navigation is a problem?

MonikaFL · Post by **MonikaFL** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 9:34 pm

http://www.piccolohq.com/pedagogy.html

search for "metal"

Again, I recognize there are exceptions, and that's great if metal is your choice. But if you're looking for something that you can use professionally, in the future, I wouldn't recommend an all-metal picc. I can't even imagine walking into a symphony audition with an all-metal piccolo... I can't imagine seeing any professional piccolo player, such as Christine Beard, Jan Gippo, etc. playing one (in a serious musical setting) either. Who knows, maybe they're missing out.

flutepicc06 · Post by **flutepicc06** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 9:42 pm

MonikaFL wrote:http://www.piccolohq.com/pedagogy.html

search for "metal"

Again, I recognize there are exceptions, and that's great if metal is your choice. But if you're looking for something that you can use professionally, in the future, I wouldn't recommend an all-metal picc. I can't even imagine walking into a symphony audition with an all-metal piccolo... I can't imagine seeing any professional piccolo player, such as Christine Beard, Jan Gippo, etc. playing one (in a serious musical setting) either. Who knows, maybe they're missing out.

Thanks for the link...I'll read through it in a minute.

I actually heard a fantastic picc recital at one of the NFA conventions a few years back in which the performer (can't remember who it was at the moment, but I'll update if the name comes to me) commented on the fact that they were playing a metal Haynes picc, so it's not out of the question for professionals to use metal piccs. Uncommon?...Yes. Unimaginable?...No. Like I said above, material is (of course) going to have to be a personal choice, but it's not reasonable (in my mind at least) to automatically decide any metal picc is suitable only for a marching situation, especially when recommending instruments for other players.

MonikaFL · Post by **MonikaFL** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 9:57 pm

I think we'll just have to agree to disagree. And that's okay, that's what this board is for. Different opinions are good!

Any recommendation is going to reflect what the person making the recommendation has experienced. I've never heard an all-metal piccolo sound anything but bright. Beautiful yes. But dark? Never. That is only my experience. Therefore, I have to agree with the majority of other professionals out there. And it could be that my opinion of what is dark is different than yours. I tend to play very dark, and would love to try a specific model of an all-metal picc capable of that to see what it feels like. The idea intrigues me...

As far as the Haynes... I believe they're in a league of their own, and would expect exceptions to the rule with their instruments.

flutepicc06 · Post by **flutepicc06** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 10:02 pm

MonikaFL wrote:I think we'll just have to agree to disagree. And that's okay, that's what this board is for. Different opinions are good!

I can definitely agree with that! I suppose it's a "to each their own" kind of moment. And there's nothing wrong with that!

As far as the Haynes... I believe they're in a league of their own, and would expect exceptions to the rule with their instruments.

Then perhaps you won't be surprised to hear that one of the metal piccolos I hold in highest esteem was a 14k rose gold Haynes. It certainly is not the only exception to the "bright" rule I've encountered, but from an overall playability standpoint, it was probably the finest piccolo I played at the NFA convention in San Diego.

MonikaFL · Post by **MonikaFL** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 10:04 pm

Ohhhh sounds gorgeous!!

I was thinking more of all-silver piccs being the beasts. LOL

I really can imagine that Haynes being exquisite.

FLflutist · Post by **FLflutist** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 12:59 pm

Hmm, well thanks for the advice.

If all else fails, I'll just have to learn to play the wooden Yamaha one we have at our school.

kflutist · Post by **kflutist** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 1:59 pm

I know it seems like this conversation is over but i wouldn't count metal piccolos out of concert work entirely especially if that is what you have to work with. It also seems to me that alot of the sound seems to be knowing your instrument and learning how to get the sound out that you want.