thumb pain

bfloyd · Post by **bfloyd** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 5:53 am

I hope that someone has some advice for me on this; I am having pain in my right thumb at the base of the thumb. It doesn't feel like it is at the lower joint (the joint closer to the wrist) but just below that area. I blame this on my 41 year old hands and their lack of agility. Anyway, is there something I can do to help with this pain? Is this common in flute playing? I have seen online that they make thumb rests and they describe them to relieve downward thumb pressure (how I don't understand). Do these help? I am holding the flute as instructed from various books and the same that is on the sample online video on this site. I am still in the search for a teacher and hope to find one soon. Thanks.

vandoren · Post by **vandoren** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 6:21 am

bfloyd wrote:I hope that someone has some advice for me on this; I am having pain in my right thumb at the base of the thumb. It doesn't feel like it is at the lower joint (the joint closer to the wrist) but just below that area. I blame this on my 41 year old hands and their lack of agility. Anyway, is there something I can do to help with this pain? Is this common in flute playing? I have seen online that they make thumb rests and they describe them to relieve downward thumb pressure (how I don't understand). Do these help? I am holding the flute as instructed from various books and the same that is on the sample online video on this site. I am still in the search for a teacher and hope to find one soon. Thanks.

See http://www.jennifercluff.com/deathgrip. ... and_damage

also
http://www.wwbw.com/Solexa-Thumbport-i323145.music

It is nothing to do with 41 year old hands - I have 66 year old hands and at least I don't have this sort of problem

Good luck and don't despair.

IanR

bfloyd · Post by **bfloyd** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 2:33 pm

Thanks for the links. The thumb rest I seen is here at the bottom of the page:
http://www.flute4u.com/flute_accessories.html

Is the rest you linked the same type of design or different?

vandoren · Post by **vandoren** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 3:55 pm

bfloyd wrote:Thanks for the links. The thumb rest I seen is here at the bottom of the page:
http://www.flute4u.com/flute_accessories.html

Is the rest you linked the same type of design or different?

Different

piccolo1991 · Post by **piccolo1991** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 8:58 pm

Well, speaking of thumb rests...I ordered the Thumbport to try for some of my students with horrible thumb positions. I cannot make up my mind about it...it seems odd to me, but I have played for 16 years without one...little strange to mess with it now. Let me know if anyone has thoughts on this one. Here is a link if you haven't seen/tried it:
http://www.fluteworld.com/index.php?act ... wart=48726

Thanks!

fluttiegurl · Post by **fluttiegurl** » Sun Oct 07, 2007 7:24 am

I have used the thumb port with students. For some, it works well, for others, they just ignore it and go on. As for yourself, I do not recommend adding any device such as this unless there is an actual need for it. If it does not actually help relieve tension in your thumb and correct position, it is useless.

piccolo1991 · Post by **piccolo1991** » Sun Oct 07, 2007 9:28 am

Yeah, I wasn't going to use it...I just wanted to try it out to see if I should recommend it to my students. I don't like to make them go out and buy stuff unless I actually believe it is worth it! Thanks!

fluteguy18 · Post by **fluteguy18** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 1:22 pm

I use the thumbport, and I love it. That being said, my thumbs are somewhat unique in that they are on average shorter than most individuals. So, this device is a real life saver for me. It helped bring my hand to a more natural position, and released tension.

bfloyd · Post by **bfloyd** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 3:19 pm

It sounds like thumb rests are a love or hate item. Is there any thing else I can try to relieve the pain I am having in my right thumb? perhaps some stretching or massage? Thanks.

arabians207 · Post by **arabians207** » Tue Oct 09, 2007 4:37 pm

I have a thumbport, and i love it!

fluteguy18 · Post by **fluteguy18** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 7:50 pm

Well... try relaxing your grip. It sounds to me like you are suffering from too much tension. I would give the thumb rests a try though. Fluteworld.com has both for sale I believe, and they have a return policy that is manageable.

Or, try going to a convention to try some out.

I had tension in my hand, and the thumbport really helped. If you have large hands, then perhaps a bopep would be helpful. But, you have to at least give them a try before deciding whether or not to use them.

Anne · Post by **Anne** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 8:56 pm

I found some really helpful exercises here:
http://musiced.about.com/gi/dynamic/off ... music.html

These problems are often caused by poor hand position and/or gripping the instrument too hard. I just gave myself tedonitis from playing a tenor recorder with a less than perfect right hand position. I was gripping it way too hard. I've corrected it now, and it has improved a lot since applying some traction and using a wrist brace. When I first started playing flute I got tendonitis in my right thumb with pain in the same area you mention. Again, this was because my thumb position wasn't right. Fortunately that cleared up after a few visits to the sports clinic. You need to treat these injuries right away though, before they get any worse. Good luck with it.

bfloyd · Post by **bfloyd** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 2:04 pm

Anne wrote:I found some really helpful exercises here:
http://musiced.about.com/gi/dynamic/off ... music.html

These problems are often caused by poor hand position and/or gripping the instrument too hard. I just gave myself tedonitis from playing a tenor recorder with a less than perfect right hand position. I was gripping it way too hard. I've corrected it now, and it has improved a lot since applying some traction and using a wrist brace. When I first started playing flute I got tendonitis in my right thumb with pain in the same area you mention. Again, this was because my thumb position wasn't right. Fortunately that cleared up after a few visits to the sports clinic. You need to treat these injuries right away though, before they get any worse. Good luck with it.

Thanks Fluteguy and Anne. Yes, my hands are large. I am finding though that I am more comfortable with a Rockstro grip with my right thumb being placed more in back of the flute rather than under it and using my left hand first finger to help support the weight of the flute. I will try both the Thumbport and the Bopep.

Anne - Thanks for the great article, it is very helpful. What adjusts did you find helped with your right thump pain? I know the pain of the tenor recorder, I used to get the same pain. I also got the pain while playing the alto as well. Though I never did get the pain while playing the soprano and 'nino. Have you tried a knicked (bent) head piece tenor? I read that they help wonders for hand pain. You can find a plastic Yamaha tenor knicked for a reasonable cost.

Anne · Post by **Anne** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 3:04 pm

Hi bfloyd, It was actually my left thumb I injured, sorry, I made a mistake there. I was using the tip instead of lower down because I found it uncomfortable with the key pressing on the side of my thumb. I can't turn my thumb around enough so it opposes the forefinger, so I have to use the side of the thumb. Anyway, it created too much pressure and that's what caused the tendonitis. I use a Solexa thumbport for the right thumb. The idea is to help with balancing the flute and avoid pressing down too hard with the little finger (which I was doing) to support it. It does seem to have helped relieve the pressure on the right hand. I also tried playing without the little finger on the e-flat key and noticed it doesn't really need to be there most of the time anyway, even though the fingering chart says to keep it down most of the time. I've noticed that some teachers will say you need to use the little finger to help support the flute (Edwin Putnik, whose book I used to learn the basics) and others say you just support it with your right forefinger, your chin and your left thumb. So there is some differing opinion out there.

I did hear about the knicked tenor option. I checked it out on the Lazar's Early Music site. It seems you have to send it in to be modified though. Guess you can't just get a bent headpiece. I seem to be doing a little better with it now I've stopped bending my wrist so much and cramping up my hand. I'm also thinking of getting a soprano as well so I can practice a little easier without having to worry about injuring my hand while it's still recovering. I'm still learning the recorder fingering, though I can play a few of my flute tunes (from the book Medieval & Renaissance Music for Flute by Jessica Walsh) on it. Just got the tenor a week ago. It was the music in that book that made me gravitate to the recorder I think.

bfloyd · Post by **bfloyd** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 5:46 am

Anne wrote:Hi bfloyd, It was actually my left thumb I injured, sorry, I made a mistake there. I was using the tip instead of lower down because I found it uncomfortable with the key pressing on the side of my thumb. I can't turn my thumb around enough so it opposes the forefinger, so I have to use the side of the thumb. Anyway, it created too much pressure and that's what caused the tendonitis. I use a Solexa thumbport for the right thumb. The idea is to help with balancing the flute and avoid pressing down too hard with the little finger (which I was doing) to support it. It does seem to have helped relieve the pressure on the right hand. I also tried playing without the little finger on the e-flat key and noticed it doesn't really need to be there most of the time anyway, even though the fingering chart says to keep it down most of the time. I've noticed that some teachers will say you need to use the little finger to help support the flute (Edwin Putnik, whose book I used to learn the basics) and others say you just support it with your right forefinger, your chin and your left thumb. So there is some differing opinion out there.

I did hear about the knicked tenor option. I checked it out on the Lazar's Early Music site. It seems you have to send it in to be modified though. Guess you can't just get a bent headpiece. I seem to be doing a little better with it now I've stopped bending my wrist so much and cramping up my hand. I'm also thinking of getting a soprano as well so I can practice a little easier without having to worry about injuring my hand while it's still recovering. I'm still learning the recorder fingering, though I can play a few of my flute tunes (from the book Medieval & Renaissance Music for Flute by Jessica Walsh) on it. Just got the tenor a week ago. It was the music in that book that made me gravitate to the recorder I think.

Interesting about the little finger . . .

Bill Lazar is a great person and wonderful to deal with. I am a fan of early music myself and purchased some recorders from him. I'm not sure about the Yamaha knicked head joint. I thought he would sell them seperately too but I'm not sure. I remember he once told me that if my current straight head joint was in excellent condition with no scratches and such, he would just exchange a knicked head (plus costs) for the one I had. If you are interested you may want to inquire with him.

Thanks for the heads up on the Medieval and Renaissance book from Jessica Walsh. I am going to order that book and CD along with her Celtic book and CD. They look great and Amazon has a very good price for them.

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