I had a confusing encounter at a local music store, and was curious to see everyones reaction. I went to a store to try out some of their flutes. Their website states that they carried a wide selection of beginner, intermediate, and professional flutes. So, I figured I would go and try out as many of their flutes that they would let me.
As I walk in it occurs to me to ask the sales lady to take a look at their professional flutes. I don't know why, just occured to me that I wanted to take a look at one. Even though I'm a beginner it can't hurt to ask. So I asked the sales lady to show me their new professional flutes. Her first question was if I was buying or renting for myself or a child. I told her I was looking to buy for myself, and I wanted to try out as many flutes as I could.
She goes in the back and brings out a Gemeinhardt. The first thing I notice is that the model is not a professional level, but I dismiss it as I really want to try all the different types. I then notice a couple of things: 1. there are scratches on the flute, 2. The pads had some white stuff (which looked like wax) all over them. They also looked quite worn, 3. when I pressed the keys gently, quite a few of them made a squishy clicking sound.
I asked the lady if this was a new flute. Her response was that it was and that the problem was that it had been taken out of the plastic. I then asked her if this was a professional flute, and she said no that it was an intermediate flute. She couldn't find any of the professional level ones.
She offers to go look again. She comes back and says she can't find any of the other professional flutes. I ask her if she had any intermediate or beginner flutes. She tells me that she couldn't find any of them and that the owner had stepped out for a bit and she probably has them stored in the warehouse. She would be back any minute. I agreed to wait for a while. It seemed resonable enough, since it is a very bad part of town.
After a few minutes she offers to call the owner and see where she is. I over hear her telling the owner that I was an adult buying for myself and not for a child, and that she had shown me the gemeinhardt and I was not interested in it.
She comes back and tells me that the owner won't be in today. She is playing at a concert about a half hour drive away, at a local High School. All the professional flutes that they have are kept at the High School. If I was interested she could give me directions. Her boss would be glad to meet me there and show me her flutes. I declined, thanked her, and left.
Is it just me or does this store seem like they are trying to scam people?
Strange Encounter at a Music Store
Moderators: Classitar, pied_piper, Phineas
It sounds to me like they're trying to force you to buy that flute. Why the heck would any reasonable reasonable music store only have one of an instrument? They should have at least had a few different models. If you want to see whether you can actually trust the store somewhat, I would recommend checking the price of the flute they showed you online. Hopefully, there won't be that big of a discrepancy. (Or if there is, hope it's in your favor.) Regardless, I probably wouldn't be doing business with them any time soon.
Honor is for the living; death has none.
Re: Strange Encounter at a Music Store
First of all, you were the victim of advertising. I have been to many music stores that say they have a selection, then half of the time they pull out an order catalog. You will find this to be the case most of the time.Fox wrote:I had a confusing encounter at a local music store, and was curious to see everyones reaction. I went to a store to try out some of their flutes. Their website states that they carried a wide selection of beginner, intermediate, and professional flutes. So, I figured I would go and try out as many of their flutes that they would let me.
As I walk in it occurs to me to ask the sales lady to take a look at their professional flutes. I don't know why, just occured to me that I wanted to take a look at one. Even though I'm a beginner it can't hurt to ask. So I asked the sales lady to show me their new professional flutes. Her first question was if I was buying or renting for myself or a child. I told her I was looking to buy for myself, and I wanted to try out as many flutes as I could.
She goes in the back and brings out a Gemeinhardt. The first thing I notice is that the model is not a professional level, but I dismiss it as I really want to try all the different types. I then notice a couple of things: 1. there are scratches on the flute, 2. The pads had some white stuff (which looked like wax) all over them. They also looked quite worn, 3. when I pressed the keys gently, quite a few of them made a squishy clicking sound.
I asked the lady if this was a new flute. Her response was that it was and that the problem was that it had been taken out of the plastic. I then asked her if this was a professional flute, and she said no that it was an intermediate flute. She couldn't find any of the professional level ones.
She offers to go look again. She comes back and says she can't find any of the other professional flutes. I ask her if she had any intermediate or beginner flutes. She tells me that she couldn't find any of them and that the owner had stepped out for a bit and she probably has them stored in the warehouse. She would be back any minute. I agreed to wait for a while. It seemed resonable enough, since it is a very bad part of town.
After a few minutes she offers to call the owner and see where she is. I over hear her telling the owner that I was an adult buying for myself and not for a child, and that she had shown me the gemeinhardt and I was not interested in it.
She comes back and tells me that the owner won't be in today. She is playing at a concert about a half hour drive away, at a local High School. All the professional flutes that they have are kept at the High School. If I was interested she could give me directions. Her boss would be glad to meet me there and show me her flutes. I declined, thanked her, and left.
Is it just me or does this store seem like they are trying to scam people?
Another you you did was give the sales lady too much credit. To a common person, any new flute could be a professional model. Most people that work in music stores can only tell the difference based on the price of the instrument, if that.
"All of the professional flutes are kept at the high school." This is a dead give away that you are dealing with the wrong people! They may not be purposely trying to run a scam, I just do not think they know what they are doing. This establishment obviously specializes in school instrument rentals. A professional flute to them might be a Gemmy 3s(Which many professionals use). You never know.
Phineas
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etgohomeok
- Posts: 147
- Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2007 8:26 pm
Always stick with the big, chain stores that everyone knows about (I don't know about where you live, but my favorite stores are St. John's in Canada and McFayden's in the US) if you're seriously looking for an instrument. Somewhere with a reputation.
On the other hand, if you're looking for a cheap, quick instrument, a tip is to check out pawn shops. I got my marching piccolo from a pawn shop for $300.
On the other hand, if you're looking for a cheap, quick instrument, a tip is to check out pawn shops. I got my marching piccolo from a pawn shop for $300.
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fluttiegurl
- Posts: 882
- Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 11:05 pm
Personally, I like dealing with smaller, locally owned businesses. I play test for two, and even before I made this connection, I had nothing but great service. The biggest key is that they are willing to allow my students to try several flutes at a time in their own homes and they have specialists on hand to answer questions (not just the band guy). I have had good experiences with larger businesses like Fluteworld, but I enjoy taking students to the local shops.
Also, a good (or bad) reputation goes a long way!
Also, a good (or bad) reputation goes a long way!
Re: Strange Encounter at a Music Store
Dusk - I am definately not going back to that store.Dusk wrote:Regardless, I probably wouldn't be doing business with them any time soon.
Phineas - I have been finding this to be true. I have been having really bad luck with these stores. They all just wanted to get me in the store. It wouldn't be so bad except that the flutes they want to sell are used flutes in poor condition.Phineas wrote:First of all, you were the victim of advertising. I have been to many music stores that say they have a selection, then half of the time they pull out an order catalog. You will find this to be the case most of the time.
fluttiegurl - I think I am going to order from fluteworld. They show that they have the ones I am looking for, and I've heard some good things about them on the forum.fluttiegurl wrote:I have had good experiences with lager businesses like fluteworld, but I enjoy taking students to the local shops
Fluttiegurl
I like the small local shops also. There are just not many that keep high end instruments in stock. Most of the local stores where I have lived cater mostly to beginners. Every so often, you will find a place where the owner is really into dealing instruments.
For example, there is a place in St.Louis called Saxquest. The guy that owns the place is REALLY into saxophones! Even though it is a small place, he has a great selection of all sorts of saxophones and other woodwinds. Too bad he rarely has flutes...lol(Although they work on lots of them!)
etgohomeok
Big dealers can be a blessing or a curse! Some of the people that work in the band sections of the larger stores are no better than the one in the original message of this thread. I have found in larger stores, noone wants to work in the band department. Why? Because the band section has the lowest number of sales than any other department in the store. This means someone could easily fall victim to someone who is trying to make commission. Also, if the manager over the department knows what they are doing, the sale price of the items could be skewd to try to sell another item.
I recently went to a local Sam Ash here in Cleveland looking for a student model flute. They had a selection of flutes that were from $150 to $300 dollars. Some new mostly used. I tried 4 instruments.
Jean Batiste New(Decent for a lower price instrument)
Armstrong 104 Used(Terrible condition)
Yamaha 225s Used(Excellent Condition)
Selmer Bundy Used(Fair/Needed COA)
These flutes were all the same price! Thats right, there is NO WAY they should have been selling for the same price. However it is obvious the manager wanted to sell more of the Jean Batiste than the others. Funny thing, the Yamaha(Which I bought) was hidden in the back of the case and did not even have a price tag on it. Some unsuspecting parent would easily pick the new instrument over a crappy looking higher quality instrument that needed work. I would also if they were the same price.
Pawnshops use to be a good place to find deals on instruments. They are not like they use to be. If a person is not savvy about price negotiation, you will be taken to the cleaners at most pawnshops these days. It use to be true you could find a decent student model flute for $100 dollars or less. Now, Pawnshops are instrument museums! I went a pawnshop recently and saw a Gemmy 2SP with a $500 price tag on it. USED!..... 4 words AINT NO !@#$$%^ WAY! The worse part about it, he was not willing to come down!
I think the original poster did the right thing in starting this thread. Too bad other un-informed people dont try harder to gather information before they buy something. These scams work because parents/teachers/consumers just do not take the time to inquire, and ask enough questions. People just want everything now.
Phineas
I like the small local shops also. There are just not many that keep high end instruments in stock. Most of the local stores where I have lived cater mostly to beginners. Every so often, you will find a place where the owner is really into dealing instruments.
For example, there is a place in St.Louis called Saxquest. The guy that owns the place is REALLY into saxophones! Even though it is a small place, he has a great selection of all sorts of saxophones and other woodwinds. Too bad he rarely has flutes...lol(Although they work on lots of them!)
etgohomeok
Big dealers can be a blessing or a curse! Some of the people that work in the band sections of the larger stores are no better than the one in the original message of this thread. I have found in larger stores, noone wants to work in the band department. Why? Because the band section has the lowest number of sales than any other department in the store. This means someone could easily fall victim to someone who is trying to make commission. Also, if the manager over the department knows what they are doing, the sale price of the items could be skewd to try to sell another item.
I recently went to a local Sam Ash here in Cleveland looking for a student model flute. They had a selection of flutes that were from $150 to $300 dollars. Some new mostly used. I tried 4 instruments.
Jean Batiste New(Decent for a lower price instrument)
Armstrong 104 Used(Terrible condition)
Yamaha 225s Used(Excellent Condition)
Selmer Bundy Used(Fair/Needed COA)
These flutes were all the same price! Thats right, there is NO WAY they should have been selling for the same price. However it is obvious the manager wanted to sell more of the Jean Batiste than the others. Funny thing, the Yamaha(Which I bought) was hidden in the back of the case and did not even have a price tag on it. Some unsuspecting parent would easily pick the new instrument over a crappy looking higher quality instrument that needed work. I would also if they were the same price.
Pawnshops use to be a good place to find deals on instruments. They are not like they use to be. If a person is not savvy about price negotiation, you will be taken to the cleaners at most pawnshops these days. It use to be true you could find a decent student model flute for $100 dollars or less. Now, Pawnshops are instrument museums! I went a pawnshop recently and saw a Gemmy 2SP with a $500 price tag on it. USED!..... 4 words AINT NO !@#$$%^ WAY! The worse part about it, he was not willing to come down!
I think the original poster did the right thing in starting this thread. Too bad other un-informed people dont try harder to gather information before they buy something. These scams work because parents/teachers/consumers just do not take the time to inquire, and ask enough questions. People just want everything now.
Phineas
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fluttiegurl
- Posts: 882
- Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 11:05 pm
But they're cheap!fluttiegurl wrote:Hence the reason why every year, I have at least one beginner who comes to me with a new flute from Wal-Mart
Isn't there some sort of international music affiliation that could endorse reputable companies? That would eliminate the ability of the rip-off brands to say all of the "band instructor approved" garbage.
Honor is for the living; death has none.
Thank you.fluttiegurl wrote:Personally, I like dealing with smaller, locally owned businesses. I play test for two, and even before I made this connection, I had nothing but great service. The biggest key is that they are willing to allow my students to try several flutes at a time in their own homes and they have specialists on hand to answer questions (not just the band guy). I have had good experiences with larger businesses like Fluteworld, but I enjoy taking students to the local shops.
Also, a good (or bad) reputation goes a long way!
I grew up in the back of a small shop, and I know that Dad always went
the extra mile, especially for the school kids that came through.
So I tend to deal with independents whenever I can, myself.
mark
So many instruments.... so little time.... :)