Need Help

wines60 · Post by **wines60** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 7:17 pm

My grandson, (9th Grade), is new to band this year, and is playing the flute for the first time. (Has been a piano student for 7-8 years). A family member has given him a newly refurbished Conn flute. The instrument has the words CG Conn Ltd., Elkhart, Ind and the numbers 20-0-27- 3698-C-L on it. This flute was made before the late 1960's, but don't know the age other than that. I don't know haw to determine whether the numbers refer to the model in any way, or are perhaps they are serial numbers.
Can anyone give me some idea of what we have? Is this a worthy instrument for a beginner? Any help would be most appreciated.
An answer here or e-mail to me would be great. Thanks .

Marion wines60@aol.com

flutepicc06 · Post by **flutepicc06** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 7:25 pm

Conn flutes are decent student instruments. Assuming the work done to refurbish it was done well, and the flute is in good working condition, it should certainly serve him for at least the first few years (and quite possibly longer). As for all the numbers and markings, I cannot help you, but the Conn website (http://www.cgconn.com/) does have serial number related info, as well as contact information for the company, and they may very well be able to tell you exactly what you have. Hope that's useful!

wines60 · Post by **wines60** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 7:28 pm

Thanks for the quick reaponse. I'll follow up with the site you gave.

flutepicc06 · Post by **flutepicc06** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 7:30 pm

No problem...Good luck!

wines60 · Post by **wines60** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 7:49 am

RE: my post above: I'm not having much luck in finding a match on the Conn site with the numbers I have. I will attempt to call the company to see if there is any help there. In the meantime, does anyone else have an opinion regarding the flute I mentioned? It is at least 30 years old; was used by my husband's sister for six years as her student instrument. It was completely overhauled this summer; new pads, etc. ( I know nothing about flutes, so I don't know exactly what was done). The grandson seems to like it, but this is a completely new instrument for him, he's only played piano previously. We are not sure his band instructor is pleased however. I wonder if it is just a bit of prejudice against Conn???? If any of you flutists, (flautists?), out there know about, or have played a Conn, especially one which was made in the 1960's or earlier, I love to hear your opinions. Thanks
Marion deVries (wines60@aol.com)

fluteguy18 · Post by **fluteguy18** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 10:29 am

well, what I do know, is that Conn and a company called Selmer have merged in the past 5 years (I believe they merged, but they might have always been the same company). Before that point, I know that Conn didnt have very many woodwind instruments out (at least from the wide selection of used instruments I have seen), but were primarily a company that produced brass instruments. However, of the two companies (assuming that they both produced woodwind instruments similiar in quality), the flutes were okay student instruments, and possibly okay intermediate flutes. I have owned three selmer flutes over the years, and for the level I was playing at (beginner/ very early intermediate) they were good. not the best for a beginner, but good enough. If this flute is anything like those produced by Selmer, then it is a very sturdy instrument, and can handle rough treatment that is usually associated with young flutists.

Also, disregard any bias from your grandson's director. The director doesnt have to play the instrument. Your grandchild does, and if it makes him happy, then that is all that matters. If it is the brand or age of an instrument that the director dislikes, then listen to this. I have a friend that owned a decent vintage gemeinhardt 2sp, and when they had it repaired by a local flute professor/ repairman, he was told he would be better off just throwing it away, and buying a new one. The flute he had played fine, and he just now upgraded to a gemeinhardt 3S. True, it wasnt the nicest flute in the world, but it suited his needs perfectly.

Also, keep in mind that your grandchild is just now beginning to learn this instrument. Their tone quality, and technique will be shaky and uneven for quite a while, until they get comfortable. Dont expect magic immediately. True, a newer instrument might help him learn faster, but many pro flutists prefer vintage instruments for their tone quality, despite any scale/ intonation inaccuracies. The only way that a newer instrument would help, would be that the headjoint design might be geared towards a learning student, by means of a more forgiving embouchure cut.

But, if you had the flute refurbished, and the tech. didnt tell you anything wrong with the flute, it is perfectly fine. Dont worry about it. You did the right thing, and didnt mess up. it was a good thing that you had it checked over, and had it fixed. If there was something wrong with the instrument, the tech. would have told you.

fluttiegurl · Post by **fluttiegurl** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 11:49 am

You are correct about Conn originally produced mostly brass instruments (until the 1920's from what I can remember). The company had been renamed UMI in the 80's, and along with several others, combined with or was purchased by, not sure which, with Selmer (in 2001 or 2002 I think). If the flute is a C G Conn flute, it was most likely made well before the 1980's, more than likely in the 1960's or even 1950's. More than likely, it has very little to do with Selmer flutes as they were produced by a different company at the time that this one was produced. I have no way of knowing the exact age, and the company might not have those records either (some companies do not keep the best of records and there was a fire at one point in the company's history), but calling could not hurt.

However, if the flute plays easily and in tune, the age is not that important. I have encountered some of these flutes, and they seem to be OK beginner flutes. My only concern would be intonation. A great deal has changed about how flutes are made and about how flute making in general is approached, especially with beginner flutes which are now produced with beginner players in mind. If your grandson likes the flute and has no obvious problems, I see nothing wrong with this being a starter for him. I have seen far worse. It will be a while before tone quality is a real issue, and the first flute usually takes quite a beating. After a few years, if he is still interested and doing well, you may want to consider an upgrade. This could happen no matter what flute he begins on.

I have delt with many band directors who knew very little about the flute and some who were flutists. The ones who were not often demanded that all of their players play on a certain brand of flute, not realizing that all people are different (both physically and financially). You may want to talk to him and see what his side is. It may be a legitimate concern (like intonation), or it may be irrelevant to your grandson's music education. Either way, you get a chance to make contact with the director and at least hear what his reasonings are. After all, your grandson will have to deal with him for a while if he plans to stay in band.

wines60 · Post by **wines60** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 6:58 pm

These three posts above have been tremendous for me and my grandson. I am hoping he will learn to really love the flute and continue to play for many years to come.
Thanks for the advice and encluragement. Any more comments would be greatly welcome. Thanks to all. Marion

fluteguy18 · Post by **fluteguy18** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 7:43 pm

Thanks fluttiegirl for elaborating/ clarifying. I was going out on a limb in my response. I only assumed that selmer flutes and conn flutes were similiar because of the merge (it is likely that there had to be a connection in the companies goals, and production quality for this to happen), even though I knew of little if any connection between the two companies in this particular time period. I have actually never played a conn, but I assumed their qualities in a theorectical environment. I am glad I assumed correctly, and didnt lead anyone astray. Thanks for helping us all out. (I was deathly afraid that my response would bring fire from the heavens because people would figure out thatI based my comment mostly off on my own conclusions......

)

MeLizzard · Post by **MeLizzard** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 8:42 pm

Conn (Armstrong) and Selmer flutes are rather different, actually. I've always found the Selmers to be much less responsive, and just not my cup o' tea. I searched for this number in the book at work, and couldn't even find a list for such serial numbers. Sometimes, these companies' recordkeeping was less than stellar, years ago. The repairman thinks flutes actually labeled "Conn" haven't been made since the '70s or even a little earlier. If it seems to be working ok for your grandson, don't worry about others' opinions. Is there a reputable flutist in your town whose perspective you could seek? The previous post citing many changes in flute design is relevant. I play an older flute, and I try to avoid flute-lust by not playing every new thing going, but I'm well-aware that my flute isn't so automatically responsive and 'big' sounding as many others played today. Does my flute work for me? Yes. Can I envision a time at which it might become my "backup" flute? Absolutely. Design (ergo, playability) keeps evolving, and someday, I'll have to re-invest to keep up.
Conn-UMI flutes are now Armstrong, though they also made Artley flutes for a time (through the early '80s). I find the Armstrongs much preferable to the Selmers, or Artleys. The salient feature of the beginner Selmers, for a long time, was, if you blew a few notes, drop-kicked it across a room, picked it up, and blew a few more notes, it would sound pretty much the same as before the dropping!

If you're searching for used Conn woodwinds, they're sold under the Artley name. They're ok beginner-early intermediate instruments, but Selmer, Yamaha, and Buffet clarinets & saxes kinda kick their butts. Many of my intermediate flute students, however, have been successful playing various Armstrong models. You're right in assuming, though, that this company's forte is brass--I work with three solid trombonists, and in each of their "collections" is at least one Conn, vintage or current.