Very nice! You are a very accomplished player and I thoroughly enjoyed listening to you!My Recital
Moderators: Classitar, pied_piper, Phineas
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MissyHPhoenix
- Posts: 368
- Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2008 5:19 pm
- Location: Hammond, LA, USA
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lianeandflute
- Posts: 135
- Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2010 1:19 am
Hi there!
I was reading your blog and saw in an old post you were reading a book about "the development of the orchestral audition (focusing on the flute audition)" Do you remember which book it was? Do you have any other book recommendations for student flute players like yourself?
Btw, I've been onto your new website and your recordings are great! You have such a lovely tone and play so musically. I wish I sounded like you, haha.
Greetings from Down Under! XD
I was reading your blog and saw in an old post you were reading a book about "the development of the orchestral audition (focusing on the flute audition)" Do you remember which book it was? Do you have any other book recommendations for student flute players like yourself?
Btw, I've been onto your new website and your recordings are great! You have such a lovely tone and play so musically. I wish I sounded like you, haha.
Greetings from Down Under! XD
"It's happening inside you; not in the flute!" - Emmanuel Pahud (At a masterclass in Sydney, Nov. 2010)
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fluteguy18
- Posts: 2311
- Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 3:11 pm
Thanks!
The book was actually a dissertation written by a DMA student at Rice University. Here is the link to that book (full download). http://scholarship.rice.edu/bitstream/h ... sequence=1
There are indeed SEVERAL other books that I recommend reading. If you can get your hands on a copy, "Nothing But Perfection: The Struggle for Perfection at the Juilliard School" by Judith Kogan is a great read. It is unfortunately out of print, so you have to find a used copy. A few members on the board here have read it and obtained it quite cheaply through Ebay or the Amazon Marketplace. If you do a search on this board for Juilliard, I'm sure the discussion thread will emerge.
I also recommend reading James Galway's new autobiography. It's a fascinating and hilarious read. Galway has had an amazing career, and quite a lot of it by the generosity of others who took a liking to this poor boy from Belfast. He spends time not only discussing professional matters, but personal matters at length. It's nice seeing the real person beneath the legend.
I also recommend reading 'My Teacher: Remembering Marcel Moyse.' It's an easy and short read by Susan Fries. It doesn't talk so much about him as a musician, but him as a person. Moyse was a hoot!
And lastly I recommend reading "Mozart in the Jungle" by Blair Tindall. I do not however recommend buying this book. Borrow it from someone. After reading this book I wanted to quit music. But it definitely brought that aspect of reality to the way I think about the future. Of course, I don't think it's really as bad as she makes it out to be (and she made some of her own problems), but it definitely brings a sharp contrast to the dazzling façade that a career in music is often imagined to be. I know that if I were to read it now, I would quit music permanently. But that being said, I recently had a horrible experience at a flute workshop where two very famous and influential players made it clear that they don't think I'm a good player whatsoever. So I've been a bit depressed because one of them was my idol in a sort of way. Actually... very depressed. I've been looking into changing my career path and becoming a graphic designer (I have a knack for it... always have). But yet I can't bring myself to put away my flute. I love playing too much. So I'm sort of in Limbo for a bit.
The book was actually a dissertation written by a DMA student at Rice University. Here is the link to that book (full download). http://scholarship.rice.edu/bitstream/h ... sequence=1
There are indeed SEVERAL other books that I recommend reading. If you can get your hands on a copy, "Nothing But Perfection: The Struggle for Perfection at the Juilliard School" by Judith Kogan is a great read. It is unfortunately out of print, so you have to find a used copy. A few members on the board here have read it and obtained it quite cheaply through Ebay or the Amazon Marketplace. If you do a search on this board for Juilliard, I'm sure the discussion thread will emerge.
I also recommend reading James Galway's new autobiography. It's a fascinating and hilarious read. Galway has had an amazing career, and quite a lot of it by the generosity of others who took a liking to this poor boy from Belfast. He spends time not only discussing professional matters, but personal matters at length. It's nice seeing the real person beneath the legend.
I also recommend reading 'My Teacher: Remembering Marcel Moyse.' It's an easy and short read by Susan Fries. It doesn't talk so much about him as a musician, but him as a person. Moyse was a hoot!
And lastly I recommend reading "Mozart in the Jungle" by Blair Tindall. I do not however recommend buying this book. Borrow it from someone. After reading this book I wanted to quit music. But it definitely brought that aspect of reality to the way I think about the future. Of course, I don't think it's really as bad as she makes it out to be (and she made some of her own problems), but it definitely brings a sharp contrast to the dazzling façade that a career in music is often imagined to be. I know that if I were to read it now, I would quit music permanently. But that being said, I recently had a horrible experience at a flute workshop where two very famous and influential players made it clear that they don't think I'm a good player whatsoever. So I've been a bit depressed because one of them was my idol in a sort of way. Actually... very depressed. I've been looking into changing my career path and becoming a graphic designer (I have a knack for it... always have). But yet I can't bring myself to put away my flute. I love playing too much. So I'm sort of in Limbo for a bit.
"But that being said, I recently had a horrible experience at a flute workshop where two very famous and influential players made it clear that they don't think I'm a good player whatsoever. So I've been a bit depressed because one of them was my idol in a sort of way. Actually... very depressed. I've been looking into changing my career path and becoming a graphic designer (I have a knack for it... always have). But yet I can't bring myself to put away my flute. I love playing too much. So I'm sort of in Limbo for a bit."
Gosh FG18, your playing certainly has my respect. One side of me says to follow your heart and follow your dream. The other side of me says that one must be realistic ... that only the top 100 or so flutists in this country will make it into a major symphony orchestra and the rest will be teaching or always trying to find gigs.
For myself, I knew that I wasn't good enough to be a professional player. But I still love music, and I still love playing prinicipal flute in a college/community orchestra. In fact, we had a small dinner party at my house last night with the conductor present (PhD in music composition), along with a cellist (PhD in pipeline mechanics), an oboist (a retired registered nurse), and myself (a VP in Information Technology).
Good luck with what you decide
Gosh FG18, your playing certainly has my respect. One side of me says to follow your heart and follow your dream. The other side of me says that one must be realistic ... that only the top 100 or so flutists in this country will make it into a major symphony orchestra and the rest will be teaching or always trying to find gigs.
For myself, I knew that I wasn't good enough to be a professional player. But I still love music, and I still love playing prinicipal flute in a college/community orchestra. In fact, we had a small dinner party at my house last night with the conductor present (PhD in music composition), along with a cellist (PhD in pipeline mechanics), an oboist (a retired registered nurse), and myself (a VP in Information Technology).
Good luck with what you decide
Fluteguy,
Sorry to hear about your bad experience. Do remember the guy who had previously recommended that you audition for Juilliard to keep things in perspective. Also, someone had to select you to play for the workshop. Is that person a complete idiot? I don't think so.
One thing that could make this educational: If the "expert" player(s) were not completely horrid, just rather discouraging, you could ask them what aspect of your playing you need to improve the most. Fixing what others perceive as your weaknesses can be very informative. Also, if it was a style thing, such as how much vibrato to use, then it can come down personal tastes. Regardless, you now know that you don't want to study with these players.
We've heard you play, and you definitely do have talent. Do you have enough to win an audition for a major orchestra or university faculty position? Very hard to say. Applying to competitive grad schools can be a good litmus test.
Even if you decide on a career in something besides music, there's no reason to quit. There are numerous community bands and flute choirs through out the country. At this point in my life, the only consequences of a bad performance are my own personal disappointment (no audition, school, or professional stuff.) It is very freeing to play just for the joy of it. Ironically, my performances have improved and are more relaxed now that I don't have to worry about anything.
Sorry to hear about your bad experience. Do remember the guy who had previously recommended that you audition for Juilliard to keep things in perspective. Also, someone had to select you to play for the workshop. Is that person a complete idiot? I don't think so.
One thing that could make this educational: If the "expert" player(s) were not completely horrid, just rather discouraging, you could ask them what aspect of your playing you need to improve the most. Fixing what others perceive as your weaknesses can be very informative. Also, if it was a style thing, such as how much vibrato to use, then it can come down personal tastes. Regardless, you now know that you don't want to study with these players.
We've heard you play, and you definitely do have talent. Do you have enough to win an audition for a major orchestra or university faculty position? Very hard to say. Applying to competitive grad schools can be a good litmus test.
Even if you decide on a career in something besides music, there's no reason to quit. There are numerous community bands and flute choirs through out the country. At this point in my life, the only consequences of a bad performance are my own personal disappointment (no audition, school, or professional stuff.) It is very freeing to play just for the joy of it. Ironically, my performances have improved and are more relaxed now that I don't have to worry about anything.
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fluttiegurl
- Posts: 882
- Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 11:05 pm
fluteguy18,
PLEASE DON'T GIVE UP! I have heard/seen you play and personally think you are fantastic. What sets you apart even more is your love for the art and willingness to do whatever it takes. So many of us (myself included) lack that. I admire you greatly and think that is you give up now, the world will surely miss out on what you have to offer.
With that said, just keep in mind that there will always be critics and there will always be fans. Even some of the most influential players in the world have critics (often each other). There will also be good performances and bad performances. All of these things make music all the more interesting.
Someday, I will share my undergrad experience with you. For now, let's just say that I quit playing for several years based on what one individual thought. After looking back, I let that that experience shape my future. Don't get me wrong, I love what I do. I believe that this is the path I am supposed to be on, but I just wish I had not let that get to me so much that I still have performance anxiety (after 15 years).
You certainly have a place in the music world. Just keep plugging along. Oh yea, and sometimes our idols are not what we thought they would be when we meet them.
As for the graphic designer thing, I do that on the side. It's fun and I make a little money, but does not in any way compare to my music life
PLEASE DON'T GIVE UP! I have heard/seen you play and personally think you are fantastic. What sets you apart even more is your love for the art and willingness to do whatever it takes. So many of us (myself included) lack that. I admire you greatly and think that is you give up now, the world will surely miss out on what you have to offer.
With that said, just keep in mind that there will always be critics and there will always be fans. Even some of the most influential players in the world have critics (often each other). There will also be good performances and bad performances. All of these things make music all the more interesting.
Someday, I will share my undergrad experience with you. For now, let's just say that I quit playing for several years based on what one individual thought. After looking back, I let that that experience shape my future. Don't get me wrong, I love what I do. I believe that this is the path I am supposed to be on, but I just wish I had not let that get to me so much that I still have performance anxiety (after 15 years).
You certainly have a place in the music world. Just keep plugging along. Oh yea, and sometimes our idols are not what we thought they would be when we meet them.
As for the graphic designer thing, I do that on the side. It's fun and I make a little money, but does not in any way compare to my music life
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pied_piper
- Posts: 1962
- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 1:31 pm
- Location: Virginia
Fluteguy18,
Alfred Lord Tennyson wrote: "'Tis better to have loved and lost Than never to have loved at all. " That's often misquoted or paraphrased to: "It's better to have tried and failed than never to have tried at all."
You have a great passion for music and the flute. You have to follow your heart. If you don't try to pursue your dreams, you'll always regret it. There are many ways to have a career in music either as a primary or secondary source of income. If you don't win an orchestral position, you could consider teaching, playing solo, playing studio work in LA, NY, Vegas, or Nashville or some combination of those things. You could work in the music business or even something totally different. You can always find venues to perform. Just prepare yourself with a contingency plan. Another career does not exclude performing, even with an orchestra. I know several musicians who have non-musical primary careers, but still perform regularly with one of the major symphonies.
Oh yeah, regarding the criticism from your "idol", I've heard it said that opinions are like a$$h0les - everybody has one. That doesn't always mean that they are right...
Alfred Lord Tennyson wrote: "'Tis better to have loved and lost Than never to have loved at all. " That's often misquoted or paraphrased to: "It's better to have tried and failed than never to have tried at all."
You have a great passion for music and the flute. You have to follow your heart. If you don't try to pursue your dreams, you'll always regret it. There are many ways to have a career in music either as a primary or secondary source of income. If you don't win an orchestral position, you could consider teaching, playing solo, playing studio work in LA, NY, Vegas, or Nashville or some combination of those things. You could work in the music business or even something totally different. You can always find venues to perform. Just prepare yourself with a contingency plan. Another career does not exclude performing, even with an orchestra. I know several musicians who have non-musical primary careers, but still perform regularly with one of the major symphonies.
Oh yeah, regarding the criticism from your "idol", I've heard it said that opinions are like a$$h0les - everybody has one. That doesn't always mean that they are right...
"Never give a flute player a screwdriver."
--anonymous--
--anonymous--
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stewyflute13
- Posts: 80
- Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 6:56 pm
- Location: New Mexico
Fluteguy,
I was going to write you a PM but it says that private messages have been disabled on this board. Anyways, from reading your posts/ website, I have a pretty good idea about who at least one of these people is (since you talk about them a lot). I just wanted to give you my two cents. A girl in my flute section auditioned for her school, and she basically told her to quit the flute. My friend was heartbroken. I didn't know her before she came to my school, but this year she has had confidence/ performing issues in studio class. I wouldn't want that to happen to YOU, fluteguy. As has been said already, what most people lack in the flute world is the determination/ work ethic that you so clearly have. So don't give up. Also, think about all the "greats" that have come out of pasts filled with rejection and yet, who NEVER gave up. Just a thought.. You're not the first person this has happened to (if I'm right about who you're talking about). I love her playing also, and she is also my favorite flutist in the whole entire world. And yet I have gone to her school numerous times this year because I go to a school very near where she teaches and I have always felt like I was rubbing shoulders up against her, also. Perhaps it's not YOUR PROBLEM but HER PROBLEM? Just a thought... she may be a marvelous flute player but maybe she's just not the sweetest person in the world.
I was going to write you a PM but it says that private messages have been disabled on this board. Anyways, from reading your posts/ website, I have a pretty good idea about who at least one of these people is (since you talk about them a lot). I just wanted to give you my two cents. A girl in my flute section auditioned for her school, and she basically told her to quit the flute. My friend was heartbroken. I didn't know her before she came to my school, but this year she has had confidence/ performing issues in studio class. I wouldn't want that to happen to YOU, fluteguy. As has been said already, what most people lack in the flute world is the determination/ work ethic that you so clearly have. So don't give up. Also, think about all the "greats" that have come out of pasts filled with rejection and yet, who NEVER gave up. Just a thought.. You're not the first person this has happened to (if I'm right about who you're talking about). I love her playing also, and she is also my favorite flutist in the whole entire world. And yet I have gone to her school numerous times this year because I go to a school very near where she teaches and I have always felt like I was rubbing shoulders up against her, also. Perhaps it's not YOUR PROBLEM but HER PROBLEM? Just a thought... she may be a marvelous flute player but maybe she's just not the sweetest person in the world.
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lianeandflute
- Posts: 135
- Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2010 1:19 am
Fluteguy18; firstly, thanks so much for your book recommendations! I am going to have a look for those now i'm excited... although maybe not about the "Mozart in the Jungle" one, haha. 
Secondly, the amount of support you have just received from the online flute community is incredible!!! What an amazing bunch of people.
We have all heard your playing and we all think it's wonderful. You've already got a fan base growing! haha. We all believe you are incredibly talented and work so hard, so please don't give up!
And also you seem like you're SO passionate about flute, so I really think that you should feed that passion, not starve it. You'll drive yourself mental!
Just out of interest, who were the two flute players who didn't think you were good? Remember that opinions are just opinions, they are not necessarily factual or true.
i'm excited... although maybe not about the "Mozart in the Jungle" one, haha. Secondly, the amount of support you have just received from the online flute community is incredible!!! What an amazing bunch of people.
We have all heard your playing and we all think it's wonderful. You've already got a fan base growing! haha. We all believe you are incredibly talented and work so hard, so please don't give up!
And also you seem like you're SO passionate about flute, so I really think that you should feed that passion, not starve it. You'll drive yourself mental!
Just out of interest, who were the two flute players who didn't think you were good? Remember that opinions are just opinions, they are not necessarily factual or true.
"It's happening inside you; not in the flute!" - Emmanuel Pahud (At a masterclass in Sydney, Nov. 2010)
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fluteguy18
- Posts: 2311
- Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 3:11 pm
I won't name names, but I will name the schools that I will no longer auditioning at. University of Colorado at Boulder was a school that I considered because the teacher's playing is exquisite in my opinion. Rice University was also a school that I was looking at because the teacher produces amazing students, although I do not necessarily like her playing.
And thank you for all of your support. I am trying to keep things in perspective, but it's hard. I have had to spend time reassessing my goals as a flutist. Ultimately my goal in life is to be a good person, and to be happy. Everything else is auxiliary. As a flutist, my dream is to do studio work like my teacher. Just estimating, but for about every 2 hours of concert flute, I play about 1 hour of ethnic flutes. Or at least through the summer...
My teacher seems to have confidence in me. He thinks that I will get into a school that I will like. I'm just in need of a flute detox.
And thank you for all of your support. I am trying to keep things in perspective, but it's hard. I have had to spend time reassessing my goals as a flutist. Ultimately my goal in life is to be a good person, and to be happy. Everything else is auxiliary. As a flutist, my dream is to do studio work like my teacher. Just estimating, but for about every 2 hours of concert flute, I play about 1 hour of ethnic flutes. Or at least through the summer...
My teacher seems to have confidence in me. He thinks that I will get into a school that I will like. I'm just in need of a flute detox.
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MissyHPhoenix
- Posts: 368
- Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2008 5:19 pm
- Location: Hammond, LA, USA
FG18, I have to agree with all of the other people who urge you to keep playing and studying. I have a question -- did these two instructors try to give you constructive criticism or did they just rag on you? Criticism can sting but can ultimately be helpful; however, if it was the latter, there is no excuse for it. People who are in positions of influence should be very careful of what and how they say things. I can't stand the huge egos in this industry, where someone thinks that they are so much better than everybody else that they can pronounce judgment on another persons future. Makes me furious thinking about it...... Not every flutist has to be world-class. There is room for all types and levels of ability. No one has to give up playing and/or studying just because they might not be at a principal flute player level. What a ridiculous idea!!!!
Missy
Why Be Normal????
Why Be Normal????
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fluteguy18
- Posts: 2311
- Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 3:11 pm
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MissyHPhoenix
- Posts: 368
- Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2008 5:19 pm
- Location: Hammond, LA, USA
Then they suck! 
Don't let them get you down. You are a very good musician as well as a nice person. I have never seen you put anyone down on this forum; on the contrary, you encourage everyone that you respond to. I think it would be a shame and a loss to the musical community for you to let that kind of person push you away from what you love.
Don't let them get you down. You are a very good musician as well as a nice person. I have never seen you put anyone down on this forum; on the contrary, you encourage everyone that you respond to. I think it would be a shame and a loss to the musical community for you to let that kind of person push you away from what you love.Missy
Why Be Normal????
Why Be Normal????
Yes, they do...
Apart from that, I had some classes in pedagogy and they said they had given an essay to several different teachers (different ages etc.) in an experiment, and it got graded from A to F. So it also comes down to taste and subjectivity when it is not something like maths. Music and style are a little bit like an essay IMO... I am not sure what the essay was about, but I am sure it is clear from the experiment that not all people have the same taste...
Apart from that, I had some classes in pedagogy and they said they had given an essay to several different teachers (different ages etc.) in an experiment, and it got graded from A to F. So it also comes down to taste and subjectivity when it is not something like maths. Music and style are a little bit like an essay IMO... I am not sure what the essay was about, but I am sure it is clear from the experiment that not all people have the same taste...