Picking up Sax

[Twilight91]

Hey guys. I am going to begin learning Alto Sax as a hobby-ish instrument so that I may play in the jazz band next year and was wondering if any of you all have any tips. I do realize this is a flute discussion board, but I figured that if y'all are like me, you have probably had experience with other instruments as well. If anyone has any suggestions primarily on how to stabalize my embrochoure on flute while learning a whole new one, it'd help greatly, as well as anything else you may like to share. Thanks!!!

[MeLizzard]

Sax has a looser, flexible embouchure, not altogether unlike flute. The problem I encountered was that, after only short periods of sax practice, my upper lip was virtually numb from the mouthpiece vibration. As flutists really need the upper lip for control in tone production, this was quite a hinderance. Flute tone is rather fickle, and demands conscientious maintainence. The best success I had was playing BARI (not alto) sax in the jazz band once. The embouchure is much looser, and didn't seem to vibrate my lips and teeth into a state of misery and disfunction. I eventually stopped playing sax and clarinet, not because I couldn't play them, but because practicing them was destroying my flute playing. Reed players who double flute usually have a distinctive, instantly recognizable tone quality--not necessarily ugly, but not the tone of a classical flutist at all--usually thin and strident. I'm sure there's an exception someplace, but I have yet to meet one. Hope this helps.

[drumajorchick]

Hey people...I am kinda new at this whole thing. But I am also learning sax. Actually tenor. Its pretty cool, I play it for jazz band. Surprisingly its quite simple.

[MeLizzard]

My band director always said, "Put your dumb kids on sax."! It is pretty simple.

[drumajorchick]

MeLizzard, whats that suppose to mean??? "Put your dumb kids on sax". It may not be the hardest instrument to learn but it isn't the easiest.

[MeLizzard]

At elementary and intermediate levels, I'll have to agree with her. Sax technique at this stage just isn't very hard. The embouchure is uncomplicated. The fingerings are quite easy. I guess the biggest challenge is making the sax's tone attractive! (I did a music ed bachelor's, and woodwind master's degree, which included study of flute, oboe, clarinet, sax, and bassoon.) Clarinet, oboe, and bassoon are all much more complicated. Fifth-grade clarinetists have to choose right- or left-hand fingerings for several notes, for Pete's sake! Horn and trombone offer advanced challenges as well. Flute and trumpet fall somewhere in between. At advanced levels, ALL instruments are "hard", but young sax players, especially in school groups, usually aren't expected to play (band) music with lots of technique or difficult rhythms. You've doubtless noticed composers often load up the flute, clarinet, and trumpet parts with all the challenge? This was, by the way, a stellar band director who turned out junior high groups which played like the best high schools I've ever heard, and then a high school band that was called by a guest (Ithaca, NY) conductor "the closest thing to the (1950s) Ithaca High model I've ever seen". No offense to those who play the saxophone, but I trust her music-teaching knowledge, and my own experience.

[nii_neko]

Dude, I had a tenor sax before, and I sucked so bad... so i just quite

[Mark]

I reckon I'd have to take issue with her knowledge base then.

As to your experience, well.. I will leave that as it is your own.

Sax can indeed be a good place to pick up for a second instrument for
the Opening poster's question.

Twilight91, you are picking up alto.. so here;

Practice time for you will need to be in the order of flute first, sax later.
This will help make sure that you get maximum benefit from your flute
practice since going sax first will make settling in your embouchure for
flute a little trickier.
Not hard to overcome but it will take away some time that could be
better served spent otherwise.

You will find later as you get used to it, this will not be as much of
an issue, making switching off fairly easy.


oh.. btw MeLizzard.. I know of 5 exceptions on your tone quality assessment..
with me being one of them.

Can't wait... got a Bari being delievered Wednesday that should need
only minimal work done before I can swing with it!!! wooohooooo!!!

mark

[Mark]

Hey people...I am kinda new at this whole thing. But I am also learning sax. Actually tenor. Its pretty cool, I play it for jazz band. Surprisingly its quite simple.

Good for you!

[Mark]

I think I should explain.
I find this statement to be completely asinine and hold that any band-director
that believes it to be unfit to teach music.

My band director always said, "Put your dumb kids on sax."

I care not what that persons opinion of sax is, that particular statement
shows that they do not understand what it is that they need to do.

You do not steer a child to an instrument based upon what you think their
IQ is, or based upon what you think you will need in the band.

You help the child find an instrument that will set the passion for music
on fire in their soul.. and work around any gaps that leaves in your
available instrumentation.

Mark

[drumajorchick]

Mark, I totally agree with you

[MeLizzard]

You must be a sax player, because your hyper-reaction to that statement only further enforces its validity. Think about the statement, without reading anything into it that isn't there. "Asinine" and "unfit" don't even enter the equation. The statement in no way implies that only individuals of substandard mental capacity play the saxophone. Obviously, if only stupid people ever played the saxophone, the musical world would experience considerable hardship! I've known many bright sax players, but those generally tend to double multiple instruments, at a very high level. When asked what they play, most wisely say, "Woodwinds.". One of them even toured with the Glenn Miller band in the 1950s, and used that as a jumping-off point to work with many other artists. Glorious tone, incredible technique, and sublime musicianship, all rolled up in a smallish frame that vaguely resembles Grandpa Munster! When asked what he plays, he replies, "Music.". He does not, however, enjoy playing the flute, and one can always tell he's actually a reed player, fantastic as he is. As for your claims of tone indistinguishable from an orchestral player's, well, I've never heard it yet, but I'll certainly believe it when I hear it.
Kindness and compassion, and helping children find their musical voice, are all daily concerns for music educators. But, after considering all that warm-fuzzy stuff, and legitimately so, there are practical factors a teacher must also consider. You've got to match a student to an instrument with which he or she can feel successful, and if a student lacks the innate characteristics to allow success, allowing him or her to pursue a particular instrument simply because it's their first choice may be more cruel than kind.
what if the student is poorly suited to his or her first-choice instrument? He or she will spend a couple-few years struggling, falling behind the rest of the class, and usually this type of student will quit. I don't mean to imply that sax, or any instrument, is for everyone.
The simple fact is that the sax is not a complicated piece of machinery, except from the repairman's perspective, and he'd rather see a saxophone any day than a bassoon or an oboe! The statement simply implies that the saxophone is much simpler to play (from personal study of flute, then bassoon, sax, clarinet, and oboe, I have to agree) than flute and clarinet, for almost any beginner. Flute and clarinet players in school groups are often called upon to play many notes, often arranged in complex rhythmic patterns. Unfortunately, some kids just aren't smart enough to process all of that. We've all known such young players. Likewise, kids with a less-than-great ear, or ear-lip coordination, are generally poor candidates for brass playing. Then, you can more easily hide a student with innately poor rhythm among a wind section than in the exposed percussion section. What if all these shortcomings align themselves in a single student? Which instrument does that leave? Alas, the woman you condemn without knowing has likely forgotten more about music and teaching than most of us will ever know, with a full understanding of what it is she "needs to do". I still stand by my own musical education, and 15 years of teaching flute, clarinet and, yes, sax. In no way did I imply that the elementary school band director should administer an IQ test, and then assign the saxophone to all students who score below 100.

[Mark]

you know, I was wondering if I was a bit harsh in that post.

After some reflection upon what you have stated.. I stand by my
previous assessment.


mark

[Mark]

Melizzard,

I apologize for the harshness of my response.

mark

[-piano-]

My band director always said, "Put your dumb kids on sax."! It is pretty simple.

thats what i hate. it is simple to learn fingerings, but the SMART people know that some things aren't so easy on sax.

anyway im kind of doing the opposite. i play alto sax and im learning flute as a hobby-ish instrument. when i play sax though its my lower lip that gets sore, not my upper lip. o gosh don't even get me started on reeds. just today i was playing my duet for our new principal and the stupid reed was cracked (i didn't know) and i squeaked really load.