Where are you flutistically?

sherbert789 · Post by **sherbert789** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 1:57 pm

I have been reading this forum for quite a while, and I've noticed that there are a lot of different ability/ experience levels here! I was just wondering where everyone is exactly on this very comprehensive scale that I found on Jennifer Cluff's site (http://www.jennifercluff.com/chart.htm).

Thanks!

I appreciate everyone's effort!

Meredith · Post by **Meredith** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 9:11 pm

Back in the day (say, '96-'01) I was probably around a 9.5/10.

I recently restarted after a five year hiatus, so it's hard to say. My flute teacher and I are working on changing many fundamental elements of my technique--embrochure, vibrato, tongueing, how I hold my flute, etc.--you name it, it's changing. We're just two weeks into it, and already I can see the signs of a great improvement.

So, while I don't doubt that in the end I'll be much, _much_ better than I was before, it's hard to gauge things at this point.

flutegeek1992 · Post by **flutegeek1992** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 9:12 pm

According to that I'm a level 8. I can do some of the things in the level 9 catagory as well.

fluteguy18 · Post by **fluteguy18** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 10:58 pm

According to that.... I am a high 8 or a medium-low 9. I can do everything in 8, and a lot of things in 9.

cflutist · Post by **cflutist** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 11:27 pm

Back in 1974 before I quit for 15 years, I was probably a Level 10 as I was performing pieces such as Dutilleux Sonatine, Schubert Introduction & Variations, Bozza Image, and Prokofieff Sonata in recital at the San Francisco Conservatory of Music. Now probably a 9 - 9.5 since I play mainly for enjoyment only and don't practice enough. Can still sightread Flute World Level 3, but have to practice Level 4 pieces to get it. Have not attempted any Flute World Level 5 pieces.

Phineas · Post by **Phineas** » Sat Nov 25, 2006 3:39 pm

What a narrow chart.

Skill wise I am a level 9 to a 10, however I do not know any of those pieces.

What matters for me is how the audience rates me. I have been told I am a 10

I have a lot of respect for Jenny, but it looks like its time to come p with an informational site for flute players who do not play classical.

Phineas

remnantpark · Post by **remnantpark** » Sat Nov 25, 2006 10:02 pm

Whoa!
I only played for 4 years and only /just/ received private instruction.
I am not sure about the whole numbers and levels. But all I can say is "notes, fingering, rhythms" I could play almost anything my band teacher with correct notes fingering (b/c I take piano lessons)
But tonewise...I am not so sure. last year, it was "Level 0". A.K.A: "Duck"
But I guess I improved a lot this year from using tone books, etc. It actually sounds like a flute.

flute.and.picc.are.love · Sat Nov 25, 2006 11:33 pm

According to the chart I'm a level 7. I can do some of the things listed for level 8, but not all of them and not well enough to be considered that advanced.

remnantpark · Post by **remnantpark** » Sun Nov 26, 2006 1:29 pm

According to the chart, I am like everywhere...
I can play from Low C to b3.
I can any rhythm...
I do work on tone every day
I know all the scales
Enharmics and etc I don't get confused...
and I can ease on tone from 1st octave to 3rd octave. But some notes I have difficulty b/c of sharpness...
I need to work on breath control...

That's probably about 3~4...
But I'm only playing pieces for like Level 2~3. So I really don't know where I am.

MeLizzard · Post by **MeLizzard** » Sun Nov 26, 2006 3:06 pm

Leveling, like chair placements, is a little subjective, and (unlike chairs) maybe even unwise. Each state or division, or organization, has its own list and criteria, but words on paper hold very little significance in the performing arts. Even if a player says, "I can perform ________ ", how well did they actually play it? The skill list is a bit more objective than the listed works' titles. Technique is not subjective, but other elements contribute to musical maturity as well. After teaching for several years, I've noticed how difficult it sometimes is to assign just the right literature to each student. There should be a logical progression, but sometimes even deciding which piece is actually "harder than" another is quite challenging. For example, I'm not sure I agree with the ordinal placement of a few selections on Jenn's chart, but I still respect her teaching. On many ocassions, I've taught individuals whose technique far outpaces their cognitive skills, rhythmic comprehension (can the student subdivide tricky rhythms in an unfamiliar compound meter, in a slow, cerebral piece?), abstract thinking abilities, and perspective. Sometimes, the opposite is true. I've taught several extremely bright, diligent students who seek greater challenge, but sometimes lack the fingers and/or articulation to pull it all together. I have a student currently who's studying Beethoven sonatas and Chopin on the piano. Her musicianship is stupendous. Should I give her the Liebermann concerto? Uh, no. She'll need to stick with Mozart and Bach a bit longer. So who's on a higher level? The musicianship of the latter group, I think--though they'll likely never perform the Dutilleux--is often better, but, of course, one needs to be a total package to perform challenging literature in a truly musical (as the composer might have imagined hearing the piece!) manner. The NFA pedagogy committee has prepared a VERY detailed skills list and literature guide, as a serious student might progress through the repertoire from elementary school through high school. It's available for purchase from their website ($3 or $5, or something insane like that). It doesn't include some of the most difficult literature, because, Pete's Sake, some things should be savored later, with more maturity. As well, even if high school students have enough technique and perspective to delve into those works, time is limited, and there are other things that should come first, as a foundation to all the rest. It's hard, psychologically, to catch up later. When you already have tons of technique, great tone, etc., digging back into mid-level literature makes you feel demoted, if you haven't progressed more logically. Just put one foot in front of the other, musically speaking, and you'll get to the next "level", whatever that is, when you get there.

Oh...FTR, I've performed most of the pieces listed at each level, to 10.

fluteguy18 · Post by **fluteguy18** » Sun Nov 26, 2006 4:56 pm

I agree. This rubric was very narrow, and not accurate for everyone. When I stated that i was a high eight or medium 9 I said this becuase I could do most things on level 9, one or two things on level 10, but yet I was still working on some things in level 6 and 7. So, I dont think it is the best rubric for everyone.

You will progress at your own speed, and you will move up to the next "level" in your own time.

Meredith · Post by **Meredith** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 1:03 pm

cflutist wrote:Back in 1974 before I quit for 15 years, I was probably a Level 10 as I was performing pieces such as Dutilleux Sonatine, Schubert Introduction & Variations, Bozza Image, and Prokofieff Sonata in recital at the San Francisco Conservatory of Music. Now probably a 9 - 9.5 since I play mainly for enjoyment only and don't practice enough. Can still sightread Flute World Level 3, but have to practice Level 4 pieces to get it. Have not attempted any Flute World Level 5 pieces.

What are the Flute World levels?

cflutist · Post by **cflutist** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 2:36 pm

If you have ever browsed the Flute World sheet music catalog, they grade every piece they sell from 1 - 5. Pieces like the Handel Sonatas are Level 2, Mozart Concerti or Bach Sonatas are Level 3, the pieces I mentioned (Dutilleux Sonatine, Schubert Introduction & Variations, Bozza Image, and Prokofieff Sonata) plus things like the Ibert and Nielsen Concerti are Level 4.

auona · Post by **auona** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 9:39 am

i played the 30 Caprices by Karg Elert which are in level nine, but i don't think i'm level nine..

Meredith · Post by **Meredith** » Sun Dec 03, 2006 6:37 pm

If Ibert and Nielson are 4, what gets a 5? Rodrigo?