Piccolo players?

[butterfingers]

Hi,

I'm moving over to piccolo from C concert flute and wondered if I could get some advice from piccolo players.

Are most piccolo players here using Boehm piccolos, rather than the simple system band flutes (6 chromatic keys)?

I can play Boehm or simple system equally well. The advantage of the simple system is the cost for a wood piccolo.

The Boehm flutes are expensive, and I can't afford a Pearl PFP 105.

Has anyone heard or reviewed these ones:

The Arnold & Sons:
http://ragtime.iai-shop.com/product-pol ... ccolo.html


Or this one:

http://www.ebay.de/itm/Piccolo-Querflot ... 217wt_1165


Also - what pitch are your piccolos? If you play orchestra, are you doing 440Hz or 442Hz?

If you're playing band, are you all happy with 452Hz?

I guess I would like both but I don't want 446Hz!

[pied_piper]

Most piccoloists play Boehm system piccolos. If you choose an old 6-key piccolo, you will be at a serious disadvantage, regardless of your abilities. In the U.S. most bands and orchestras tune to either A440 or A442. I'm not aware of any groups here tuning to A452. That is quite high and most modern instruments would be out of tune with themselves playing at that pitch, if they can even get that high.

Neither of the piccolos that you provided links to are known here in the U.S.

[butterfingers]

Most piccoloists play Boehm system piccolos. If you choose an old 6-key piccolo, you will be at a serious disadvantage, regardless of your abilities. In the U.S. most bands and orchestras tune to either A440 or A442. I'm not aware of any groups here tuning to A452. That is quite high and most modern instruments would be out of tune with themselves playing at that pitch, if they can even get that high.

Neither of the piccolos that you provided links to are known here in the U.S.

Why would a 6 key piccolo be a disadvantage?

They don't have to be old:


Here is a fully keyed simple system one:


Everyone in the band plays with one so I'm not sure what you mean.

As far as I know, everyone plays A=452Hz - this is British band pitch. I guess from your location in the States, maybe this doesn't exist?

What brand piccolo are you playing btw?

Thanks

[pied_piper]

OK. Yes, I am in the U.S. Here, concert bands, marching bands, and orchestras normally tune to A440 or A442. As I mentioned in my previous message, most bands and orchestras around the world usually tune in the range A440 to A444. Actually, A440 is an international standard:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A440_%28pitch_standard%29

I am very surprised that bands in UK still tune as high as A452. Is that true for all bands there? Is your group a modern concert band or does it follow an older tradition and hence the A452 tuning?

Any woodwind instrument designed and built for tuning to the international standard would not be suitable for your purposes because it will be out of tune with itself if you tune it to A452 because the hole spacing would be incorrect. I play a Yamaha YPC-62 and it is designed to play at A442. I don't think any piccolo designed to play at or around A442 would be capable of tuning as high as A452 - the whole instrument would simply be too long to tune that high. I would bet that the piccolos in the links you posted are incapable of tuning to A452...

On simple system flutes it seems more difficult to play highly chromatic passages or play in keys with a lot of flats or sharps. Cross fingerings, forked fingerings, and I believe some half-holes are required for some chromatic notes. (Yes, I am familiar with simple system flutes and have an older Meyer system flute with 11 keys. I have it as a historical novelty though and don't play it much.) Of course, if the simple system is what you are most familiar with, you may be very comfortable with it. The simple system flutes are more at home playing in keys like C, G, D, F, Bb, and Eb which are common keys for older band literature. I would not want to try playing "Flight of the Bumblebee" on a simple system flute or piccolo.

[butterfingers]

I play a Yamaha YPC-62

Cor blimey batman! How I wish....!!!

That's some flute piedpiper. I can only dream of something like that. You must love it!
I'm not conservatory standards or anything so it's a bit out of my league. The band I play with does all those diatonic scales like you've mentioned - traditional folk and short pieces that fit on a wrist lyre rather than pages and pages of sheet music. I don't know any bands here that do A=440/2Hz. Maybe we play more traditional folk than chromatic classical pieces?

I also play in ensemble outside so that's why I'm trying to decide which is more important. You're right - here I'm a minority. There aren't many piccolo players - mostly flute players and they all use Boehm flutes. I started to get into Gluck's Minuet and Dance of the Blessed Spirits as well as Andersen's Op.41 style studies and so wonder whether I might get on with a Boehm piccolo. I have Boehm flutes but I didn't really take well to them. Passages do get tricky on the simple system flute and the E note is shaded - much like the Boehm Fsharp which is shaded due to the venting problems with following C major and having the F natural. Most flute players don't notice that the Fsharp is shaded because they're so used to it. I can hear it though.

Problem is I can't decide which direction to go. I have a Mollenhauer keyless traverso in C pitch and a Markneukirchen piccolo in low D. The ebay Boehm piccolosare a bit of a gamble for an unknown Boehm piccolo, when I could settle for a solidly reputed and affordable Peter Worrell one which is very good ... just not a Boehm piccolo.

These flute are all British band pitch A=452Hz:

http://www.peterworrell.co.uk/f_flute.htm





Here's some more, but these are out of my price range:

http://www.millyard-molem.com/



This one is okay for price:



It's tone is great. A few guys in our band have these ones.

You don't play that high at all in the US? It does get earpiercing without earplugs

I used to be able to half-hole and 'slide' fingering for the simple system piccolo. My fingers are too big now and I almost drop it. With the 6 keys, all the notes are properly vented by 6 chromatic keys (Bb, Csharp, Gsharp, Fnatural x2 keys) and Eb). This gives the complete chromatic scale with just 6 keys so I guess this makes them cheaper than a proper Boehm. The real advantage is that fingering on the 6 scale finger holes is much faster than the Boehm keys as there are no keys so for diatonic music, it's fast (and cheap).

Lol - I'd love to find the piccolo score for flight of a bumblebee. I'd have a go

I tried a Meyer flute and didn't like it. The tone wasn't loud because the fingerholes are so small. It was sweet, but very soft. The fingering was a stretch and it was out of pitch.

It makes me think there are no shortcuts and I've got to start saving up if I want to switch over to a Boehm instead of a better simple system piccolo. Which other Boehm piccolo brands did you strike off your list before settling for the Yamaha?

Thanks for all your help

[tao4mind]

This conversation sounds like a music store advertisement. If you are a piccolo "player" you should be able to pick up ANY piccolo and adjust to it. Of course you have to blame the instrument when you can not really play. It's to hard, it's tone is off, the keys are not right. Don't care if it's 200 years old right out of the ghetto; if your a "player" it should sound like it was made yesterday and gold plated. Kind off like updating your cell phone because the old one doesn't have "spell check" and that it's the phones fault you can not spell?

[Phineas]

This conversation sounds like a music store advertisement. If you are a piccolo "player" you should be able to pick up ANY piccolo and adjust to it. Of course you have to blame the instrument when you can not really play. It's to hard, it's tone is off, the keys are not right. Don't care if it's 200 years old right out of the ghetto; if your a "player" it should sound like it was made yesterday and gold plated. Kind off like updating your cell phone because the old one doesn't have "spell check" and that it's the phones fault you can not spell?

+1 Except 2 things.

1. You had your share of spelling and grammatical errors in this post. So you were obviously not posting from a cell phone, or spell/grammar check might have helped you.
2. I did not know they made Piccolos in the ghetto. Though, I will bet that more than a few ghetto people have probably assembled more that a few.

I am only joking....sort of!

Anyhow, just like with any other instrument, there is a thin line between limitations and preferences. I have seen people make great music on crappy instruments. I have seen people who suck with nice instruments. To each their own.

Just play the d&&n thang!

Phineas