Okay. This problem is really bugging me and I would really love to fix it.
I've been playing for 7 years and for the past 2 years I have progressed the most in flute playing and really gotten to love playing. I am playing upper level music now such the mozart concerto, hungary fantasy, 8 pieces.. those are a few examples.
The problem: My tone changes and one moment it is good and the next it sounds horrible! It doesn't change in an instant.. but say I play flute w/ a clear, deep, and strong tone for an 30 min... a few hours later when i pick up my flute, there would be times it would sound blurry and fuzzy.. and tonguing is difficult at these times as well as reaching those low notes. And the tone is not as sharp and clear as i would want it.
I am wondering if this is ME or the FLUTE. I am playing a beginner gemeinhardt 2SP. could there possibility be a SPECIFIC problem wrong w/ it? It has been fixed regularly.. so its quite a mystery...!!
my teacher told me it is me, and that i just need to practice more regularly.. but was miffed when i explained that sometimes if my flute was sounding fuzzy.. i would pick it up a few hours/minutes later and it would sound perfectly fine! Sometimes i can warmup and develop the clear sound after a while but this is not always the case.
if u took the time to read this, thank you SO much. i really appreciate it. This problem is REALLY getting on my last nerve and I hope at least ONE of you might know what it is! Thanks for reading..
Serious Problem.. This is driving me crazy.. PLEASE HELP
Moderators: Classitar, pied_piper, Phineas
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flutegirl49
- Posts: 39
- Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2004 11:53 pm
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fluttiegurl
- Posts: 882
- Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 11:05 pm
It is hard to fix a problem without first hearing you and most importantly, watching you play. From students that I have taught in the past, I discovered that this generally comes from a lack of embouchure control. Take some time to play in front of a mirror. Watch your mouth even jaws to see if there is any visible changes. Be sure to do this with both a good tone and a poor one so that you can compare. Make notes of what you see. This problem can also be caused by fatigue. You may need to lengthen your practice sessions over time to build stamina. The third reason that I have seen this happen is tension. Tension is the flutists worst nightmare. It can cause numerous problems, and yes, affect tone. Be sure that when you play, you are as relaxed as possible. That "should" be when you produce the best tone. If you are concentrating on a "perfect" tone, you will more than likely cause some sort of tension (even if it is mental tension). Try concentrating on something else, like rhythm or dynamics, and see if that makes any difference. If this is a problem that you have had for a long time, I would say that it is you and not the flute.
As for the flute, if this is a recent problem, you may be outgrowing it. You may be overpowering it which can cause similar problems. Some people suggest that you cannot "outgrow" your flute and that you need to compensate for the instrument. I, however, believe that as you grow, you need a flute that can grow with you. Student flutes are designed to be durrable, but not necessarily powerful (if you can see the difference). As players become more mature, they produce more air and quicker finger movement. Some student flutes cannot handle this. Sometimes, a change in headjoint is all it takes to fix a "tone" problem, but it is an expensive solution considering the fact that a new Gemeinhardt headjoint generally costs around $500-$600. If you can tell a significant difference on another flute, then it may be time to upgrade.
My students do not stay on their "beginner" flutes for more than a year. I have found that they tend to not have to work so hard on tone when they upgrade. As a result, we can spend time working on more advanced techniques. Keep in mind taht advanced does not have to mean "open holes". There are many great flutes out there that are advanced models with closed holes. If you do not want to play on an open hole flute, research some os thes options. One that I suggest is the Yamaha 411 (I believe is the model number). Good luck!
As for the flute, if this is a recent problem, you may be outgrowing it. You may be overpowering it which can cause similar problems. Some people suggest that you cannot "outgrow" your flute and that you need to compensate for the instrument. I, however, believe that as you grow, you need a flute that can grow with you. Student flutes are designed to be durrable, but not necessarily powerful (if you can see the difference). As players become more mature, they produce more air and quicker finger movement. Some student flutes cannot handle this. Sometimes, a change in headjoint is all it takes to fix a "tone" problem, but it is an expensive solution considering the fact that a new Gemeinhardt headjoint generally costs around $500-$600. If you can tell a significant difference on another flute, then it may be time to upgrade.
My students do not stay on their "beginner" flutes for more than a year. I have found that they tend to not have to work so hard on tone when they upgrade. As a result, we can spend time working on more advanced techniques. Keep in mind taht advanced does not have to mean "open holes". There are many great flutes out there that are advanced models with closed holes. If you do not want to play on an open hole flute, research some os thes options. One that I suggest is the Yamaha 411 (I believe is the model number). Good luck!
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flutegirl49
- Posts: 39
- Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2004 11:53 pm
Thank you so much for replying! I really do appreciate it.. this problem of mine is really discouraging sometimes and keeps me from practicing as much as i Would have practiced at time when my tone is bad.fluttiegurl wrote:It is hard to fix a problem without first hearing you and most importantly, watching you play. From students that I have taught in the past, I discovered that this generally comes from a lack of embouchure control. Take some time to play in front of a mirror. Watch your mouth even jaws to see if there is any visible changes. Be sure to do this with both a good tone and a poor one so that you can compare. Make notes of what you see. This problem can also be caused by fatigue. You may need to lengthen your practice sessions over time to build stamina. The third reason that I have seen this happen is tension. Tension is the flutists worst nightmare. It can cause numerous problems, and yes, affect tone. Be sure that when you play, you are as relaxed as possible. That "should" be when you produce the best tone. If you are concentrating on a "perfect" tone, you will more than likely cause some sort of tension (even if it is mental tension). Try concentrating on something else, like rhythm or dynamics, and see if that makes any difference. If this is a problem that you have had for a long time, I would say that it is you and not the flute.
As for the flute, if this is a recent problem, you may be outgrowing it. You may be overpowering it which can cause similar problems. Some people suggest that you cannot "outgrow" your flute and that you need to compensate for the instrument. I, however, believe that as you grow, you need a flute that can grow with you. Student flutes are designed to be durrable, but not necessarily powerful (if you can see the difference). As players become more mature, they produce more air and quicker finger movement. Some student flutes cannot handle this. Sometimes, a change in headjoint is all it takes to fix a "tone" problem, but it is an expensive solution considering the fact that a new Gemeinhardt headjoint generally costs around $500-$600. If you can tell a significant difference on another flute, then it may be time to upgrade.
My students do not stay on their "beginner" flutes for more than a year. I have found that they tend to not have to work so hard on tone when they upgrade. As a result, we can spend time working on more advanced techniques. Keep in mind taht advanced does not have to mean "open holes". There are many great flutes out there that are advanced models with closed holes. If you do not want to play on an open hole flute, research some os thes options. One that I suggest is the Yamaha 411 (I believe is the model number). Good luck!
thank you for all ur tips and i wil try them out for sure! But as i have said, i've been playing for a long time, and progressed a lot.. IMO.. and others in my position do not as this problem. I've been wondering if the shape of my lips might be the problem? Sometimes if I eat some food and come back to play, my tone willl be beautiful and clear.. but this also inconsistent and is not always the case... i have also tried for about 10-20 minutes to improve my tone by watching my lips in the mirror..adjusting my lips in every way possible.. and have tried to blow w/o tension and blowing the most air into the hole.. and hasnt helped
I REALLY do think though, that from all the experience and practice I've had over the years, i shouldn't have this problem!
is the lips shape of flute players sometimes problem?I have experiened something like what you are, and I think what causes tone to be inconsistant from day to day (or from one playing situation to another) is using too much lip muscle. I think as you practice tone you should try to use as little lip muscle as possible, keeping as relaxed as you can while still maintaing a small embouchure hole. Tone is a long term project, so don't be worried or upset when you don't see results in a week.
Your flute may have something to do with it, particularly if it is leaky. Since you are serious about flute, it might be good to get a better flute which will last you a while.
Your flute may have something to do with it, particularly if it is leaky. Since you are serious about flute, it might be good to get a better flute which will last you a while.
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fluttiegurl
- Posts: 882
- Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 11:05 pm
Yes, tone is a long trm project. For me, it just happened one day (after several yaers of aggrivation). As for eating then playing: there is some logic to that. When we stimulate the lip muscles (as we do when we eat, talk, sip, etc), we can sometimes seem to "feel" them better, thus having more control.
As for the shape of your lips being a problem, I don't beleive this is the case. I have heard of one flute teacher (one of my formers) who told a student that her lips "were not shaped right for the flute". She was a wondrful player and went on do very well with another teacher. Anyway, I believe that since we are not all alike, there is no "perfect" shape for lips. Sometimes, we learn to adjust to certain situations like braces. To me, this indicates that lip shape has no relevance.
As for the shape of your lips being a problem, I don't beleive this is the case. I have heard of one flute teacher (one of my formers) who told a student that her lips "were not shaped right for the flute". She was a wondrful player and went on do very well with another teacher. Anyway, I believe that since we are not all alike, there is no "perfect" shape for lips. Sometimes, we learn to adjust to certain situations like braces. To me, this indicates that lip shape has no relevance.
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fluttiegurl
- Posts: 882
- Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 11:05 pm
I just thought of something else.
All of us should keep in mind the fact the there will always be something about our playing that could use improving (mine included
). Others may not have the same problem, but I can assure you that they do struggle with something about their own playing. Don't get hung up on it. I think you may be thinking about it WAY too much. We often get wrapped up in the things about our playing that bother us and forget why we play in the first place (because you love it - I hope 
)
You may want to have another person listen to you play or record yourself. The problem may not be as big as you think. Take some time away from working on the problem and play something that you enjoy.
Also, I would suggest looking at some other flutes. Don't limit yourself to one brand either. Take time to visit a music store and play several, but don't let them talk you into anything without consulting your teacher and doing some research yourself. I would also suggest trying to get some on a longer term trial, like from fluteworld, so that you can see if they do make a difference.
BTW: sorry about my HORRIBLE spelling. I am not a great typest either
All of us should keep in mind the fact the there will always be something about our playing that could use improving (mine included
). Others may not have the same problem, but I can assure you that they do struggle with something about their own playing. Don't get hung up on it. I think you may be thinking about it WAY too much. We often get wrapped up in the things about our playing that bother us and forget why we play in the first place (because you love it - I hope )You may want to have another person listen to you play or record yourself. The problem may not be as big as you think. Take some time away from working on the problem and play something that you enjoy.
Also, I would suggest looking at some other flutes. Don't limit yourself to one brand either. Take time to visit a music store and play several, but don't let them talk you into anything without consulting your teacher and doing some research yourself. I would also suggest trying to get some on a longer term trial, like from fluteworld, so that you can see if they do make a difference.
BTW: sorry about my HORRIBLE spelling. I am not a great typest either
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flutegirl49
- Posts: 39
- Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2004 11:53 pm
the thing is though, it really does bother me a lot. because the tone affects my playing.. especially tonguing.. i've found that when my tone is blurry.. the higher notes can be fairly clear and the lower notes are blurry and Very hard to tongue fast because the sound wont come out fast and cleary as it usually does.
i dont see this as a long term thing... i've been playing flute for many years.. and i've never seen anyone with my problem..
How is it long term if beginner players have that clear strong tone? I know its not developed and its kind of blurry.. but if they DID have a developed embouchure it would be clearer.. I'm not sure if you understand me.. but maybe TONE isn't what i mean... maybe its sound quality.. are those the same?
but in response to the eating stimulating lip muscles.. seriously, at times when my tone was blurry/not strong i've tried readjusting everything and palying w/ barely any lip muscles and just blwing flat out...
okay just to clarify.. when i say my tone isn't clear/strong.. i mean when i play the note.. it doesnt have that clear sharp, penetrating sound to it.. and most importantly, i Cant FEEL the strength of the air going inside the hole of the lip plate... ill try to explain.. because if you play an easy note such as a G or A (at least for me at these notes)... you can feel that there is a lot of air blwoing into the flute and you can FEEL the power of the note.. but when my tone isnt so good it isnt as FULL and strong..
do u undestand? again thanks so much for the tips and advice!
i dont see this as a long term thing... i've been playing flute for many years.. and i've never seen anyone with my problem..
How is it long term if beginner players have that clear strong tone? I know its not developed and its kind of blurry.. but if they DID have a developed embouchure it would be clearer.. I'm not sure if you understand me.. but maybe TONE isn't what i mean... maybe its sound quality.. are those the same?
but in response to the eating stimulating lip muscles.. seriously, at times when my tone was blurry/not strong i've tried readjusting everything and palying w/ barely any lip muscles and just blwing flat out...
okay just to clarify.. when i say my tone isn't clear/strong.. i mean when i play the note.. it doesnt have that clear sharp, penetrating sound to it.. and most importantly, i Cant FEEL the strength of the air going inside the hole of the lip plate... ill try to explain.. because if you play an easy note such as a G or A (at least for me at these notes)... you can feel that there is a lot of air blwoing into the flute and you can FEEL the power of the note.. but when my tone isnt so good it isnt as FULL and strong..
do u undestand? again thanks so much for the tips and advice!
Poor Flutegirl, don't feel too discouraged...we all have elements of technique (including tone production) which sometimes seem to regress 
. For example, a former student, now graduating from college, woke up one morning a couple years ago and decided she couldn't double-tongue anymore 
(kinda scary--she was working on the Poulenc Sonata!!). The previous posts have good information; as for those little kids with great, booming tone, hmm. Flute tone, just like a singing voice, is incredibly individual and variable. Bone structure, resonating spaces in the body, lip shape, airstream angle, and other factors can all affect the quality of your tone. Some students naturally can produce a good sound, while others spend quite a while developing one. Same with fingers, rhythm, etc. We've all got our "issue". Is your fuzzy tone sporadic? One excellent young student, who REALLY needs a new flute, on some notes or during certain passages, kind of floods her flute (with air and power), overplaying it. It often sounds sort of shallow and slightly unfocused. She's tried some different headjoints and newer flutes recently, which have sounded more mature (less shallow). The headjoint cut of a beginner flute is generally cut for a player whose embochure is undeveloped, no strength or flexibility, and not a lot of breath development. I don't know if this is contributing to your problem, but trying some intermediate or pro flutes may be worthwhile 
. If you're certain the problem is YOU , get some tone exercises from your teacher, and pay attention to what you're doing with your upper lip (controls air direction). Trevor Wye and Marcel Moyse have published books which are good for this kind of work. Let us know how it all works out; good luck!
. For example, a former student, now graduating from college, woke up one morning a couple years ago and decided she couldn't double-tongue anymore (kinda scary--she was working on the Poulenc Sonata!!). The previous posts have good information; as for those little kids with great, booming tone, hmm. Flute tone, just like a singing voice, is incredibly individual and variable. Bone structure, resonating spaces in the body, lip shape, airstream angle, and other factors can all affect the quality of your tone. Some students naturally can produce a good sound, while others spend quite a while developing one. Same with fingers, rhythm, etc. We've all got our "issue". Is your fuzzy tone sporadic? One excellent young student, who REALLY needs a new flute, on some notes or during certain passages, kind of floods her flute (with air and power), overplaying it. It often sounds sort of shallow and slightly unfocused. She's tried some different headjoints and newer flutes recently, which have sounded more mature (less shallow). The headjoint cut of a beginner flute is generally cut for a player whose embochure is undeveloped, no strength or flexibility, and not a lot of breath development. I don't know if this is contributing to your problem, but trying some intermediate or pro flutes may be worthwhile . If you're certain the problem is YOU , get some tone exercises from your teacher, and pay attention to what you're doing with your upper lip (controls air direction). Trevor Wye and Marcel Moyse have published books which are good for this kind of work. Let us know how it all works out; good luck!-
flutegirl49
- Posts: 39
- Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2004 11:53 pm
thanks for all that wonderful advice/info! wow it must be pretty scary whe n u suddenly realize u can double tongue...MeLizzard wrote:Poor Flutegirl, don't feel too discouraged...we all have elements of technique (including tone production) which sometimes seem to regress
well i've gone to the music store to try out some higher level flutes w/ gold plated lip plates, open holes, the b foot, etc.. and my tone wasn't that great.. but then again, it might be that i'm not used to the different cut of the hole and the flute overall.. but ive used the school yamaha flute (beginner) and i had the same bad tone..
the weird thing is sometimes when i practice and start out with an excellent, and strong rich tone... and after i play a piece my tone gets skinner (?) less rich... i guess it might sound clearer.. but the sound is more focused and sharper and thinner.. but the tonguing isnt so easy w/ that tone.. b/c when i have that tone the lower notes don't play as strongly.. i am practicing my tone a bit everyday.. i will let you guys know how its going!
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efhsBlueRegiment
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[color=green]double toung[/color]
nobody ever taught me how to double toung and i've been playin flute for 6 yrs, and i'm in wind ensemble now! can somebody explain it to me? i'm kinda runnin into problems b/c of it, and would like to be able to play the runs in colonial song(percy granger) and folk dances (both grade 6 pieces---in NC)
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flutegirl49
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- Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2004 11:53 pm
Re: [color=green]double toung[/color]
heres a site that explains it http://fluteinfo.com/Doc/DT/efhsBlueRegiment wrote:nobody ever taught me how to double toung and i've been playin flute for 6 yrs, and i'm in wind ensemble now! can somebody explain it to me? i'm kinda runnin into problems b/c of it, and would like to be able to play the runs in colonial song(percy granger) and folk dances (both grade 6 pieces---in NC)
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efhsBlueRegiment
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- Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2005 3:18 pm
- Contact:
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flutegirl49
- Posts: 39
- Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2004 11:53 pm
Just to give you guys an update on my progress...
I think I AM improving... Thanks to everyone one of you for your tips and help! + encouragement!
I still don't have the clear great tone that I want everytime I pick up my flute... but I have a better tone overall more than I did before!
It's weird though... Sometimes I have this really powerful deep tone that I can feel vibrate throughout my flute when I play.. which is really nice and easy for me to play the notes.. AND other times I have this beautiful clear thin tone but the notes do not come out as easily... they come out fine yes, but the other tone seems like the notes come out more easily some how... I guess the lower notes come out more quickly too.
I can't decide which is better or which I like better. Does anyone know which one I should strive for? I wish I could combine the two to make an amazing thin,clear,but powerful tone that makes my notes easily come out..
I think I AM improving... Thanks to everyone one of you for your tips and help! + encouragement!
I still don't have the clear great tone that I want everytime I pick up my flute... but I have a better tone overall more than I did before!
It's weird though... Sometimes I have this really powerful deep tone that I can feel vibrate throughout my flute when I play.. which is really nice and easy for me to play the notes.. AND other times I have this beautiful clear thin tone but the notes do not come out as easily... they come out fine yes, but the other tone seems like the notes come out more easily some how... I guess the lower notes come out more quickly too.
I can't decide which is better or which I like better. Does anyone know which one I should strive for? I wish I could combine the two to make an amazing thin,clear,but powerful tone that makes my notes easily come out..