How important is learning the piano to flute performance?

[etgohomeok]

Not important at all

Flute is flute, piano is piano. Unless you want to play more than one instrument (which also not a good idea, IMHO), then only play one. I'd rather be 100% good on one instrument than 75% good on two instruments. Know how to find C on a piano, that's all you need.

Learning piano is even less significant to flute players than it is for other instruments because the flute is already a C instrument.

[Phineas]

Not important at all

Flute is flute, piano is piano. Unless you want to play more than one instrument (which also not a good idea, IMHO), then only play one. I'd rather be 100% good on one instrument than 75% good on two instruments. Know how to find C on a piano, that's all you need.

Learning piano is even less significant to flute players than it is for other instruments because the flute is already a C instrument.

etgohomeok

Normally I do not debate a person's point of view, but I will in this case.

You said "Flute is flute, piano is piano."

Thats bull. Music is music. There is a difference with learning theory and proficiency on an intrument. Most of the better instrumentalists I know can at least play piano. Players like Bill Bennett, Sir James, Hubert Laws, Nestor Torres, etc.... can all at least play basic piano. We are not talking about elementary school music program, we are talking about pursuits of advanced to professional players.

You said "Unless you want to play more than one instrument (which also not a good idea, IMHO), then only play one. I'd rather be 100% good on one instrument than 75% good on two instruments. Know how to find C on a piano, that's all you need."

That is a matter of personal preference. However I play more than one instrument, and I am proficient on all of them. I just did a performance this weekend where I played Guitar and Piano to back up a vocalist, and soloed on flute. I do however agree that a person should be proficient on at least 1 instrument before they try playing others. A good musician will know what it takes to learn a new instrument.

I am in total dis-agreement with you on this. If half the people that have your opinion could play half as good as I can on Flute or Guitar, I may have a reason to agree with you. If one has an effective practice routine, there is not reason why a person could not be 100% on at least 2 or 3 instruments, especially in the same instrument family. A good well rounded musician can make music on almost any instrument. If you suck on one instrument, you will likely suck on all of them.

To each their own.

Phineas

[fluttiegurl]

I agree with Phineas here. I studied both flute and voice as an undergrad, along with required piano, and I don't think my flute playing suffered at all because of it. In today's world, the more you are good at, the more marketable you are for jobs. It is very attainable to be 100% accomplished more than one instrument, though I see this with students from other countries most often.

I have also found that like flautist82 stated earlier, it is important to be a well rounded musician. If you just want to play for band or even honors band settings, piano is probably not going to be essential at this point, but for a career musician, knowing piano can make all of the difference, even if you never actually use it on stage. For instance, I have found that playing my own accompaniments helps me to learn the piece and how it fits together much more easily as well. Obviously, I will never do both on stage, but it helps me prepare for performances.

[Mark]

Thanks y'all for saving me the typing.
( I'm a doubler myself)


Now as to the original question, I would say it is extremely helpful to
learn your way around the piano.

I play most anything with a reed attached, to go along with various iterations
of flute, but there has always been a foundation issue for me that didn't start
correcting until I began sorting out how to make music with a piano last winter.

My son and daughter both got their music foundation with piano, and continue
to progress with it as well as their other instruments.

Mark

[etgohomeok]

I don't think learning piano causes harm to your flute playing at all, but it hinders potential improvement in your playing. When I say 100%/75%, I mean how good you are compared to how potentially good you could be. If you distribute your time and effort among multiple instruments, it is impossible that you are "100% good" on any one them.

I do believe that a piano is a good visual learning aid for beginning theory learners, so knowing how to find the notes how they relate to each other is important, but actually being able to play it isn't at all useful.

My band director tried to get me to learn how to play the Clarinet a little while ago, and after a couple of weeks of putting time into it, I realized it was stupid as I was wasting time I could be practicing for important auditions and performances for on the flute.

I think there's really two kinds of "learning the piano." Learning the piano as an aid to further studies is definitely something everyone should do. But actually learning it as an instrument is the same as learning any other instrument, which is (in my opinion) useless.

[Mark]

Well, I reckon you are entitled to that notion if you wish to hold to it.
The rest of us will keep doubling.

Personally, I find that the instruments tend to feed into each other to
make the music flow, no matter what the instrumentation.
example:
I use flute to feed saxophone when I'm on the road without room to
bring a sax along, and saxophone to feed my flute playing with the
different styles I play on sax. I'll be feeding them both with my piano
playing as I progress on that front as well.

It's about the music and about being a musician, not necessarily about
what instrument we are using to let the music sound forth.


mark

[pied_piper]

etgohomeok,

Here's another twist to your logic. By your way of thinking, you must have a poor opinion of the musicianship of your band director, especially since (gasp!) s/he asked you to learn the clarinet.

When band directors go through college to become a music educator, they must take classes on most instruments. At a minimum, they generally learn to play all the common instruments with enough proficiency to teach. This includes the woodwinds: flute, clarinet, saxophone, oboe, and bassoon. Brass: trumpet, french horn, trombone, and tuba. Percussion: snare drum, bass drum, timpani, mallets (i.e xylophone, marimba) and misc. percussion. Strings: Violin, viola, cello, and string bass. And YES, piano, too. Many become accomplished on more than one instrument. This is especially true for woodwind doublers.

If your opinion were true, then every band or orchestra director would not meet the standards for a pro musician since they learned so many different instruments. On the contrary, many band and orchestra directors are very accomplished musicians in addition to being fine educators. I know many who hold a position with a professional symphony orchestra or professional wind ensemble.

I know a very fine flutist who has held symphony positions with a number of different symphonies including one as principle flute for a major west coast symphony. She is also a a very respectable pianist and she frequently accompanies some of her students playing difficult concertos and other solo literature.

Gary Schocker is a well respected flute soloist and composer who is also a noted pianist. He even has one published composition (Ambidextranata) where the flutist also plays the accompaniment on piano - SIMULTANEOUSLY! The list goes on...

So, please rethink your position about the benefit of learning piano and other instruments because there is much evidence to the contrary.

[fluttiegurl]

Very well stated!

[etgohomeok]

Here's another twist to your logic. By your way of thinking, you must have a poor opinion of the musicianship of your band director, especially since (gasp!) s/he asked you to learn the clarinet.

Actually, he's the best Band Director I've ever had. Just because I think one of his suggestions was poor doesn't mean I have a poor opinion of him. That's pretty twisted logic right there if you ask me.

If your opinion were true, then every band or orchestra director would not meet the standards for a pro musician since they learned so many different instruments. On the contrary, many band and orchestra directors are very accomplished musicians in addition to being fine educators. I know many who hold a position with a professional symphony orchestra or professional wind ensemble.

Band directors aren't professional musicians. Their objective is to teach, not perform. Therefore, that example is irrelevant.

I know a very fine flutist who has held symphony positions with a number of different symphonies including one as principle flute for a major west coast symphony. She is also a a very respectable pianist and she frequently accompanies some of her students playing difficult concertos and other solo literature.

Once again, that's when she's teaching. She accompanies her students in her teaching career, but her performing career on the flute doesn't benefit in any way from knowing how to play the piano.

Gary Schocker is a well respected flute soloist and composer who is also a noted pianist. He even has one published composition (Ambidextranata) where the flutist also plays the accompaniment on piano - SIMULTANEOUSLY! The list goes on...

And you can't tell me that the flute playing on this composition is as good as if he was playing the flute alone. Some people find things like that impressive. I myself am more impressed by traditional exhibitions of skill on one instrument.

[Mark]

hmm...
Dad plays most everything, and supported us that way for years.. I guess that
makes him a pro....
He told me one day that his musical regret was not learning piano sooner.

I've seen Woody play oboe, sax, clarinet, bass clarinet, and know he plays
others.. he's been a pro for as many years as Dad.

Jim plays flute, sax, clarinet, piano, organ, and various other instruments
and he gigs all over the place as well as studio work.
oh.. yeah.. he's a pro too..

As for me.. I haven't caught up with my peers yet since I took a 20 vacation
from most music in the middle of it all, but like I said; the various instruments
compliment each other nicely, which comes in handy as I flip between
them in various places.


You want to limit yourself to one, go ahead, that is strictly your preference though.


mark

[Mark]

Band directors aren't professional musicians.

Some of them certainly are.

[fluttiegurl]

The best band directors I know are professional musicians, and most double on more than one instrument. At any worth university, they are trained first as performers. To say that band directors are not professional musicians completely disrespects the time, energy, money and effort they have put into their careers. As a matter of fact, when you look at directors in major cities, a large number of them play in orchestras and travel during the summer months.

I feel like this thread is getting a bit trite, but having been through the course of study it takes to be a performance major, I know that piano is extremely important to both my career as a performer and as a private teacher. When you get a little further along in life, you will most likely realize it too. Experience says a lot.

As for now, you are most definitely entitled to your opinion; but I am pretty sure that if you asked a number of band directors if they were professional musicians you would get an overwhelming response of yes.

[pied_piper]

Well said. Experience is indeed the best teacher.

[fluteguy18]

I have already said my opinion, and will not elaborate further, but I do have a tidbit for you all to think about.

Aside from being teachers, a Band Director's primary job is to be a conductor. Aren't Conductors professional musicians? Aren't instrumental instructors "professional musicians?'

I think sometimes our definition of "professional musician" is too narrow by means of acceptable careers. I personally think that someone who makes their living [or recieves any sort of compensation] by teaching or making music in one way or another is a professional musician.



Okay... so I lied. I do have something I want to elaborate on. I can see the opposing opinion here. I can see how learning piano might be prohibitive in regards to time. But, I do want people to think about this: it is very possible to give all the time you have to become fully proficient in two instruments. You just have to be careful about what you choose to learn.

Playing flute, your facial muscles will eventually become tired, and you will have to stop playing for the day. That does not mean that you can't devote the rest of your time practicing an instrument [or two] to other non-wind instruments. Aside from flute/picc, I play harp and piano.

When my face gets tired, I go practice harp/piano. I practice harp until my fingertips hurt, then I practice piano until my hands are tired.

So, I think it is very possible to become proficient in many instruments. You just have to use your time effectively. I am clearly proficient in flute, I am starting to get several wedding gigs on harp, and I will probably be playing piano for my church soon.

If you use your time wisely, I don't see why it is impossible to become proficient at several instruments. When one muscle group gets tired, just move on to a different instrument that uses different muscles.

[etgohomeok]

I apologize, I wasn't clear enough when I said band director's aren't professional musicians. Alot of them indeed play in professional organizations. However, when I said what I did, I meant that when directing bands, they are not professional musicians, they are teachers. And I've already stated that, for teaching, I do very much agree that learning to play other instruments is important.

However, the original question was if learning the piano is beneficial to flute playing, not teaching, and they are two quite different things. I don't believe it is important at all for a performance career because like I said a couple of posts ago, flute is flute and piano is piano. If you have a well enough understanding of theory and stuff like that without piano, which you should seeing as how you play the flute, then you don't need the piano to help you with it.

Like I said, I'm being specific to the original question of if it improves flute playing, in which case my answer is no. For cases in which teaching is involved, which most of the people here are using as examples, the piano is a very good tool.