does cost matter?
Moderators: Classitar, pied_piper, Phineas
does cost matter?
I am looking to buy a new flute. I was looking at a Gemeinhardt flute (http://www.wwbw.com/Gemeinhardt-Model-3 ... 0308.music ). It has a low b and open holes. My question is does the cost or the level of the flute really affect things that much. As long as the keys work, and it is made from a trusted brand, like Gemeinhardt, wouldn’t that mean that it would work ok? Can I still get a good sound on this flute (shouldn’t my sound quality depend on my playing style and skill level, instead how much I paid)? Just thought I’d ask before I bought anything. I dont need anything too fancy, just something that can sound good and play well.
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fluteguy18
- Posts: 2311
- Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 3:11 pm
This is a very complicated thing to answer, because it could go either way.
Does cost and level of flute affect things that much? :
Yes and no. As the cost gets higher, usually the quality of craftmanship does as well. This normally results in an instrument that will play better. However, as the price gets higher, so should the level of musicianship. Student model instruments are designed to help the beginner learn to play, and get a good handle on the basics like establishing a solid tone. As the price goes up, the instruments get more flexible in their abilities and therefore require more control to play well. They are not designed for beginners but rather for flutists who have established the basics and are ready for more advanced things like various attacks and tone colors. It is quite easy for a beginner to get their hands on an intermediate level or handmade flute and have more trouble establishing the basics.
As long as the keys work, and it is made from a trusted brand, like Gemeinhardt, wouldn’t that mean that it would work ok?
It SHOULD but that doesn't mean that it will. Even though the keys may work, the pads might not seal well. This is a common problem with online companies like WWBW.
Can I still get a good sound on this flute (shouldn’t my sound quality depend on my playing style and skill level, instead how much I paid)?
You can. Your sound quality should depend on style and skill level, but yet you also get what you paid for even among "student" level instruments. I have generally seen that individuals who start on a student Gemeinhardt versus those who start on other student models have a more difficult time getting a clean sound.
I think for the money, you have better options. If you go on fluteworld.com, you have a wider array available. In the same price range, you have the Jupiter 500 series, Emerson EF1 EF6 and EF6BOF. There is also a few of the Pearl 500 series as well. Most of these are closed hole, low c student flutes. A few of them are open hole, low b flutes. These are all silver plated. You could also look at the Yamaha 200 series, but it is around $800 USD. Even though it is more expensive, it is nearly impossible to damage.
Just look around more, and try before you buy.
Does cost and level of flute affect things that much? :
Yes and no. As the cost gets higher, usually the quality of craftmanship does as well. This normally results in an instrument that will play better. However, as the price gets higher, so should the level of musicianship. Student model instruments are designed to help the beginner learn to play, and get a good handle on the basics like establishing a solid tone. As the price goes up, the instruments get more flexible in their abilities and therefore require more control to play well. They are not designed for beginners but rather for flutists who have established the basics and are ready for more advanced things like various attacks and tone colors. It is quite easy for a beginner to get their hands on an intermediate level or handmade flute and have more trouble establishing the basics.
As long as the keys work, and it is made from a trusted brand, like Gemeinhardt, wouldn’t that mean that it would work ok?
It SHOULD but that doesn't mean that it will. Even though the keys may work, the pads might not seal well. This is a common problem with online companies like WWBW.
Can I still get a good sound on this flute (shouldn’t my sound quality depend on my playing style and skill level, instead how much I paid)?
You can. Your sound quality should depend on style and skill level, but yet you also get what you paid for even among "student" level instruments. I have generally seen that individuals who start on a student Gemeinhardt versus those who start on other student models have a more difficult time getting a clean sound.
I think for the money, you have better options. If you go on fluteworld.com, you have a wider array available. In the same price range, you have the Jupiter 500 series, Emerson EF1 EF6 and EF6BOF. There is also a few of the Pearl 500 series as well. Most of these are closed hole, low c student flutes. A few of them are open hole, low b flutes. These are all silver plated. You could also look at the Yamaha 200 series, but it is around $800 USD. Even though it is more expensive, it is nearly impossible to damage.
Just look around more, and try before you buy.
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fluttiegurl
- Posts: 882
- Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 11:05 pm
This is a debate I have with the parents of students quite a bit. The truth is, just because it looks like a flute does not mean it sounds like a flute, if you get where I am heading. In other words, not all flutes will play the same. you are somewhat on the right track, stick to reliable brands. However, I always suggest that students find a price range that they are comfortable with and try as many flutes is that price range as possible. Sometimes, a higher end used flute is better than a new flute, but that is also not true in every case.
Now for my opinion on the flute in question. This flute should be a decent instrument, but there are certainly better flutes out there. Just try them out. Open holes and a B foot do not mean it is a good flute, so just be sure to try a lot of flutes before making a decision.
I also recommend Flute world to shop. They also have a great trial program so you can get a few flutes, keep the one you want and ship the rest back. It is a great way to compare different models/brands.
Now for my opinion on the flute in question. This flute should be a decent instrument, but there are certainly better flutes out there. Just try them out. Open holes and a B foot do not mean it is a good flute, so just be sure to try a lot of flutes before making a decision.
I also recommend Flute world to shop. They also have a great trial program so you can get a few flutes, keep the one you want and ship the rest back. It is a great way to compare different models/brands.
I would like to add to Fluteguy's statement
The fact is, if you suck, a $100000 dollar flute will not help you. On the other hand if you are good, you can sound good on almost any flute as long as it is in working order. I have bought my share of cheap instruments, and I have learned a few thing.
1. What you can play on, and what you prefer are 2 totally different issue. There are a lot of cheap playable instruments. However, I may not want to bother playing on them.
2. Where you purchase the instrument form makes a difference! If a dealer will not stand behind what they sell, it really does not matter what the instrument costs. You could just as easily find a $5000 dollar flute that is not playable. WWBW at least has a return policy.
3. Consider durability! This makes a big difference in the choice of instrument you choose.
4. Openhole/Closehole really does not matter. However the headjoint does!
5. Just because a flute is new, does not mean it will play well. Most new flute(horns) I have ever gotten needed some type of adjustment.
Now on to Gemeinhardt. You could do worse, but for the money you could do a little better. Even a 500 series Pearl will blow that instrument out of the water. If you can find someone selling a good used Yamaha 200 series, I think you would prefer it over a Gemeinhardt. They are not bad instruments, and I could live with one if I had to. Would I prefer a Gemmy, no.
There are a lot of loyal Gemeinhardt players. I know plenty of pro doublers that have them. I would say just try it out and see. However leave you options open!
Phineas
The fact is, if you suck, a $100000 dollar flute will not help you. On the other hand if you are good, you can sound good on almost any flute as long as it is in working order. I have bought my share of cheap instruments, and I have learned a few thing.
1. What you can play on, and what you prefer are 2 totally different issue. There are a lot of cheap playable instruments. However, I may not want to bother playing on them.
2. Where you purchase the instrument form makes a difference! If a dealer will not stand behind what they sell, it really does not matter what the instrument costs. You could just as easily find a $5000 dollar flute that is not playable. WWBW at least has a return policy.
3. Consider durability! This makes a big difference in the choice of instrument you choose.
4. Openhole/Closehole really does not matter. However the headjoint does!
5. Just because a flute is new, does not mean it will play well. Most new flute(horns) I have ever gotten needed some type of adjustment.
Now on to Gemeinhardt. You could do worse, but for the money you could do a little better. Even a 500 series Pearl will blow that instrument out of the water. If you can find someone selling a good used Yamaha 200 series, I think you would prefer it over a Gemeinhardt. They are not bad instruments, and I could live with one if I had to. Would I prefer a Gemmy, no.
That alone would make me steer away from that one!I have had this model for 3 years and I love it to death. Even though the rods bend somewhat easily it still has really good sound and is easy to mrach with!!!!
There are a lot of loyal Gemeinhardt players. I know plenty of pro doublers that have them. I would say just try it out and see. However leave you options open!
Phineas
Thanks all... this is great advice.
I have to get it from wwbw, since I can’t pay all the money at once, and they have a monthly payment plan. I bought my sax from there and it is still working fine 3+ years later, so I feel good with that site, although fluteworld seems like a really good place to buy a flute from (just not for me right now).
I never really questioned my decision about Gemeinhardt until now… I used a Gemeinhardt for the last 2 ½ years (school instrument). It was fine, (except the inline g bugged me, but oh well) so I never really thought too much about it. My band teacher seemed to really like the Gemeinhardts, but then again, he’s a brass player. I don’t know much about brands. I found a pearl flute on wwbw that seems cool (http://www.wwbw.com/Pearl-Flutes-Quantz ... 3721.music). I guess I am still learning about brands of flutes. I always just assumed that it was either Gemeinhardts for students/intermediates or handmade type flutes for pros, and the other brands weren’t really necessary… but I’m still learning, and I am happy to hear about other brands. It widens my vocabulary.
I guess I was just looking for a cheap quick fix in my needing a flute, without really thinking long-term. I should probably explain what I hope to get out of a flute, so you can help me figure out if I am going in the right direction with my purchasing decisions… I hope to purchase a flute that will last me through college (and beyond). For the last 2 ½ years I was a flute/sax player at a community college, and now I want to start focusing on my flute a little more. My first instrument was the flute and I have been playing it for 10 years. I’m not a flute master or anything like that, but I feel that I have a good grasp of the instrument, can play the full range of notes, and I just want an instrument that is good for me.
And one more question... how much do headjoints matter. I know mouthpieces matter for sax players, so I suppose it would matter the same for flute players, but with those mouthpieces they have different shapes on the inside, and can be made with different materials. I know headjoints can be made with different metals, but if you get a straight head joint it's all going to be the same shape. So how does the headjoint matter?
Well, I guess I have a lot to ponder. Thanks for the advice!
I have to get it from wwbw, since I can’t pay all the money at once, and they have a monthly payment plan. I bought my sax from there and it is still working fine 3+ years later, so I feel good with that site, although fluteworld seems like a really good place to buy a flute from (just not for me right now).
I never really questioned my decision about Gemeinhardt until now… I used a Gemeinhardt for the last 2 ½ years (school instrument). It was fine, (except the inline g bugged me, but oh well) so I never really thought too much about it. My band teacher seemed to really like the Gemeinhardts, but then again, he’s a brass player. I don’t know much about brands. I found a pearl flute on wwbw that seems cool (http://www.wwbw.com/Pearl-Flutes-Quantz ... 3721.music). I guess I am still learning about brands of flutes. I always just assumed that it was either Gemeinhardts for students/intermediates or handmade type flutes for pros, and the other brands weren’t really necessary… but I’m still learning, and I am happy to hear about other brands. It widens my vocabulary.
I guess I was just looking for a cheap quick fix in my needing a flute, without really thinking long-term. I should probably explain what I hope to get out of a flute, so you can help me figure out if I am going in the right direction with my purchasing decisions… I hope to purchase a flute that will last me through college (and beyond). For the last 2 ½ years I was a flute/sax player at a community college, and now I want to start focusing on my flute a little more. My first instrument was the flute and I have been playing it for 10 years. I’m not a flute master or anything like that, but I feel that I have a good grasp of the instrument, can play the full range of notes, and I just want an instrument that is good for me.
And one more question... how much do headjoints matter. I know mouthpieces matter for sax players, so I suppose it would matter the same for flute players, but with those mouthpieces they have different shapes on the inside, and can be made with different materials. I know headjoints can be made with different metals, but if you get a straight head joint it's all going to be the same shape. So how does the headjoint matter?
Well, I guess I have a lot to ponder. Thanks for the advice!
Most of the answers to your questions are located here.sliversax wrote:Thanks all... this is great advice.
I have to get it from wwbw, since I can’t pay all the money at once, and they have a monthly payment plan. I bought my sax from there and it is still working fine 3+ years later, so I feel good with that site, although fluteworld seems like a really good place to buy a flute from (just not for me right now).
I never really questioned my decision about Gemeinhardt until now… I used a Gemeinhardt for the last 2 ½ years (school instrument). It was fine, (except the inline g bugged me, but oh well) so I never really thought too much about it. My band teacher seemed to really like the Gemeinhardts, but then again, he’s a brass player. I don’t know much about brands. I found a pearl flute on wwbw that seems cool (http://www.wwbw.com/Pearl-Flutes-Quantz ... 3721.music). I guess I am still learning about brands of flutes. I always just assumed that it was either Gemeinhardts for students/intermediates or handmade type flutes for pros, and the other brands weren’t really necessary… but I’m still learning, and I am happy to hear about other brands. It widens my vocabulary.
I guess I was just looking for a cheap quick fix in my needing a flute, without really thinking long-term. I should probably explain what I hope to get out of a flute, so you can help me figure out if I am going in the right direction with my purchasing decisions… I hope to purchase a flute that will last me through college (and beyond). For the last 2 ½ years I was a flute/sax player at a community college, and now I want to start focusing on my flute a little more. My first instrument was the flute and I have been playing it for 10 years. I’m not a flute master or anything like that, but I feel that I have a good grasp of the instrument, can play the full range of notes, and I just want an instrument that is good for me.
And one more question... how much do headjoints matter. I know mouthpieces matter for sax players, so I suppose it would matter the same for flute players, but with those mouthpieces they have different shapes on the inside, and can be made with different materials. I know headjoints can be made with different metals, but if you get a straight head joint it's all going to be the same shape. So how does the headjoint matter?
Well, I guess I have a lot to ponder. Thanks for the advice!
viewtopic.php?t=2411
I double and teach saxophone(you heard right....I play flute, and double on saxophone). Headjoints can make a difference, but not in the same way as a Sax mouthpiece. To an average person, you will hear a much larger difference in sound when you change a sax mouthpiece as opposed to a flute headjoint. Flute headjoints are made more for the player than the listener. If that makes any sense.
I have the Pearl 665, and absolutely love it. The headjoint could be better, but I think the flute plays nice overall.
Phineas
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fluttiegurl
- Posts: 882
- Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 11:05 pm
I have several students who play the 665 Pearl and for the most part, with great results. One of them upgraded the headjoint to a handmade Powell after playing on the Pearl head for almost three years. We both agreed that the flute was mechanically in great shape, so it was an inexpensive upgrade. I mention this because you can at any time upgrade a headjoint and get a different feel for the instrument later on. Don't feel like you have to stick with the head that comes with the flute forever. I just recommend that you keep the original headjoint in case you decide to resell the flute later on and keep the upgraded head.
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sidekicker
- Posts: 311
- Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2006 5:58 am
- Location: Scottish-American in Oklahoma
I second all the other comments made thus far.
And I totally and strongly agree with Fluttiegurl's strategy of picking your price range first, then try whatever you can in that range - be it a new mid-level flute or a used professional model.
As far as durability goes, I have to say that if you take good care of your instrument, use correct hand posture on the keys, and just use common sense about everything else, just about any flute would work unless it was made of something that disintegrates over time. There is no reason you should have a bent anything; that comes from being careless and/or having poor hand position for the most part.
For what it's worth I recently bought a Jupiter 511 as a back up instrument and it is just fantastic; I would recommend it to anybody who doesn't want to spend a whole lot of money but wants a really nice sounding instrument. Does it sound the same as my vintage Haynes? No; of course not. But I can get it pretty darn close with some extra effort. As Phineas said, a lot of this depends on how advanced a player you are. A good flutist is going to sound good on virtually any flute you give him/her provided it is in good working order to begin with.
And, as Phineas said, check out the FAQs we did on this a while back. They are pretty helpful.
SK
And I totally and strongly agree with Fluttiegurl's strategy of picking your price range first, then try whatever you can in that range - be it a new mid-level flute or a used professional model.
As far as durability goes, I have to say that if you take good care of your instrument, use correct hand posture on the keys, and just use common sense about everything else, just about any flute would work unless it was made of something that disintegrates over time. There is no reason you should have a bent anything; that comes from being careless and/or having poor hand position for the most part.
For what it's worth I recently bought a Jupiter 511 as a back up instrument and it is just fantastic; I would recommend it to anybody who doesn't want to spend a whole lot of money but wants a really nice sounding instrument. Does it sound the same as my vintage Haynes? No; of course not. But I can get it pretty darn close with some extra effort. As Phineas said, a lot of this depends on how advanced a player you are. A good flutist is going to sound good on virtually any flute you give him/her provided it is in good working order to begin with.
And, as Phineas said, check out the FAQs we did on this a while back. They are pretty helpful.
SK
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gemeinhardtflute
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- Contact:
Gemeinhardt Flutes Rule
I've been using the Gemeinhardt Flute since 8th grade (am now 35). I dont know why everyone doesnt have one. It's like having a good hair brush in your purse.
Gemeinhardt Flute Enthusiast
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vampav8trix
- Posts: 120
- Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2008 12:03 pm
- Location: USA
Re: Gemeinhardt Flutes Rule
Because not everyone likes Gemeinhardt flutes. Some players need professional flutes with sturdier mechanisms. They also require headjoints that have more tonal flexability.gemeinhardtflute wrote:I've been using the Gemeinhardt Flute since 8th grade (am now 35). I dont know why everyone doesnt have one. It's like having a good hair brush in your purse.
Have you ever tried a Powell (not the Sonare) or a handmade Haynes?
Sankyo, Altus, Tom Green?
I personally prefer Muramatsu flutes.
If you like Gemeinhardt flutes, good for you. But I wouldn't say that everyone should have one. And yes, I have played many Gemeninhardt flutes. I have to test them after I put them back together.
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CaperFlutist
- Posts: 18
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Re: Gemeinhardt Flutes Rule
I don't have one because I have a beautiful Powell which I would not trade for a Gemeinhardtgemeinhardtflute wrote:I've been using the Gemeinhardt Flute since 8th grade (am now 35). I dont know why everyone doesnt have one. It's like having a good hair brush in your purse.
Re: Gemeinhardt Flutes Rule
I am sure tha most of the players have had one at some time or another. The brand and model you own have less to do with the joy of playing, or the ability to play as much as it is a matter of subjectivity.gemeinhardtflute wrote:I've been using the Gemeinhardt Flute since 8th grade (am now 35). I dont know why everyone doesnt have one. It's like having a good hair brush in your purse.
Welcome to the board. I do not mean to be on the attack. I have been following this thread, and thought I should make a comment. There are some people out there that have $100 Chinese cheapo specials that have fun playing just as well as anyone else.
If you prefer Gemeinhardt flutes, noone is going to attack your opinion. But telling someone "You are crazy if you dont own one!" is not a good way to get on someone's good side....
Peace and love
Phineas