Fit of Flute Headjoints

morningstar · Post by **morningstar** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 12:08 am

Hi everyone, I have some questions which hopefully the more experienced flute buyers can help. I'm planning a trip to Japan next year and was thinking of getting a new headjoint to fit my Muramatsu GX while I'm there (you can't buy or trial any headjoints here in Singapore, even buying flutes are difficult, only Yamaha here stocks a wide range but any other brands have to be specially ordered and you cannot test them before buying)

So my question is, how does shopping for headjoints actually work since all hjs have different fit (I have tried fitting different brand hjs into another brand of flute bodies (e.g. armstrong to yamaha, yamaha to miyazawa, etc.) but they all don't seem to fit. Yet I hear of alot of people who use this flute with that hj and so and so, how do these people get different hjs to fit different bodies??!!! I know about the taping and also technicians who can adjust them, but is this advisable and even safe? And if you want to custom-order say a Burkart hj how do you know that it will definutely fit your flute body?

I am assuming also that the same brand hj and body should fit well so that is why I am going to limit myself to just muramatsu hjs, but can anyone confirm this? I am most likely bringing my flute there so I can test the hjs with it. I also wonder if I want a thick-walled hj will it fit my flute body (which is normal-walled)? Just that it's stupid to spend 1k - 2k on a headjoint and it doesn't fit, then having to worry about getting it adjusted to fit (there's no technicians in this country who can do that anyway, and even if there are I don't really want to trust anyone with this operation!)

Sorry for the long post, just want to be sure so I can plan my budget. I would love to try out Powell hjs but it is impossible! (Boston is too far and they don't even bring in any Boston brands here! Flutes OR HJs! bleah!

sidekicker · Post by **sidekicker** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 6:48 am

You are correct. People mix and match headjoints to bodies all the time. However, there can be some issues with regard to fit. In my experience, though, that is more the exception than the rule. Most any headjoint can be fitted (here, I mean by a professional) to a body of a different type. The only situation I can think of where that probably wouldn't work is where the headjoint is too large, i.e. will not fit into the body at all, and you can't consider it because you cannot try it. There are some makers (for example, Burkart) who seem to use a much skinnier bore, causing the headjoint when used on a different make flute to be quite loose.

I would definitely not limit yourself to just a Muramatsu headjoint because that's what you have. You will be excluding a huge array of heads that you may have liked better. In my opinion, you should try out heads for as long as it takes to get precisely what you want. Not to dissuade you, but I recently made the same trek and it took me 20 years to find exactly what I was seeking. That is a very very rare occurrence though (and I'm pretty picky

). My point is that is sometimes can take some time and it's not something you will want to rush.

Good luck!
SK

chaos0008 · Post by **chaos0008** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 7:16 am

Hi! It's nice to see a fellow Singaporean here on this board!

Regarding the headjoint, have you tried Band World yet? When I bought my Sonare there, I recall them having some Miyazawa headjoints in stock. Other than there, I don't know any other shop that stocks headjoints.

As for the headjoint fitting, I'm pretty sure that professionals will be able to do the job safely. However, you'd probably have to send the flute overseas for the fitting as I don't think there is anyone here who can be trusted enough to do the job well..

To sidekicker:
I understand your rationale behind wanting to try for as long as needed, but sadly, it's extremely hard to do so for him(or her?). The flute market (actually I'd say the whole music market) here is very small and to try flutes we'd probably have to ship in from outside.

By the way, perhaps someone could recommend a trustworthy online flute store that ships trials overseas? I personally do not know of one.

morningstar · Post by **morningstar** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 8:56 am

Thanks sidekicker, I would love to try lots of hjs also but as chaos0008 mentioned, it is close to impossible here! I have come to the conclusion that it is not possible to shop for most instruments here unless you are just looking for a basic student model. Overseas is the best bet but that means spending extra on a plane ticket. As the Japan trip is a short one, I can only limit myself so I thought muramatsu will be the best bet since the fit will probably be the best and I can also ask them to adjust the instrument while I'm there.

hi chaos0008, nice to see another SGean here too

I was just at Bandworld last week! but didn't check with them on the Miya headjoints. Do you know if they allow you to try the hjs and flutes there? and how's the pricing compared to overseas? I do trust Bandworld cos they have been around for quite long and Mr. Ong is a nice man

btw, how's the sonare? I was thinking of a Powell flute but Bandworld says must order it in, which means a commitment before trying! at that price I don't think I want to commit before I am sure

Personally, I feel that even if there is a reliable online flute store to order from, the shipping and handling fees will probably kill you, so really not the way to go unless you are very sure of what you want and just need to trial the particlular model. Still think an overseas trip if you want to try out instruments will be better, especially if it's an incidental holiday trip and you can use it to buy a flute or hj back

pied_piper · Post by **pied_piper** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 10:17 am

Yes, I would think the trial costs would be prohibitively high when dealing internationally. Besides the shipping and handling fees, insurance is also figured in which makes the cost even higher. I'm in the USA and over the summer, I tried out four headjoints from one flute vendor. The four that I tried were relatively high-end including one that was all 14K. The shipping/handling/insurance fee was about $150US and I'm less than 500 miles from the store. Then, after I decided to buy one of them, I had to pay to ship my flute to the vendor to get the selected headjoint sized, so that was another $150US for that.

I would expect that the international rates for shipping/insurance would easily be double or triple what I paid.

fluteguy18 · Post by **fluteguy18** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 10:25 am

You can order directly from companies, and several will deal internationally. You could also try http://www.fluteworld.com

chaos0008 · Post by **chaos0008** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 6:10 am

Sadly, the last time I had asked, they said they will only allow trying if you buy one at the end of it all. I'm quite certain that if you know them well enough, they will allow an exception though. They had two Sonare flutes in stock at that time, so I was able to test it on the spot and compare it to the Miyazawa flutes. My take on it? I absolutely love the HJ, but the body is only sub-par when compared to the Miyazawa. Sadly, back then I was still using the English-style embouchure(the 'smiling' one) so I couldn't really handle the Miyazawa as well as I probably could now. Or perhaps the cut just wasn't suitable to me.

I definitely wouldn't suggest ordering in. There's too much risk that it would not be to your liking and that would be about SG$3500+ down the drain.

Looking at the prices that pied_piper has put up, I'm frankly quite surprised! The cost for shipping could very easily go up to the price of a HJ itself!

I guess your best choice would be to try and find a shop in Japan that stocks a few brands so you have a wider range to try?

The typical Singaporean mentality of music shop owners is really bad when you compare them to the ones overseas. If not, we wouldn't have this problem. There's only one store that is an exception to this. Do you know of Music Essentials down at Meridien Shopping Centre(right beside Plaza Singapura)? Last time I was there, he said he was ordering in a few flutes, and was willing to let me try it the next time I was there, without any obligations. I haven't had to time to go down yet, and I'm not too sure which brand it is, but maybe it's worth a visit so you get to try a wider variety?

morningstar · Post by **morningstar** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 6:46 am

Oh! But what if you didn't like both of the flutes you tested?! I agree that the Singapore retailers are very bad, lack of range + no testing = sucky customer service

I mean, if it's like a $20 product I don't mind buying it without testing, but not a product which I have to plonk down a few k! ok, now I'm ranting....but to be fair to them also, they have to protect their interests...what if alot of people just come in to test and test but not buy, and they end up with slightly used instruments which can't be sold...I also bought my mura without testing as the retailer said that the customer has to be sure before they allow you to test, but that's ok for me since I already knew I wanted a mura after playing once on my teacher's some time ago

Yes, i go to Music Essentials sometimes to get scores (I get 10% discount there, heh

), they bring in the Amadeus flute (which has a handcut Haynes head but on a cheaper made in China/Taiwan body, much like the Powell headed Sonares). I've heard good things about it but they don't have stocks at the moment. The shop person said he will email once stocks arrive and can go down and try it! so what say you, do you want to go down together

? Always nice if can get to know another SG flutist

oh, PM me or something cos don't want to hijack this thread

fluteguy18 · Post by **fluteguy18** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 6:47 am

If you make a trip to Japan, you might as well try to visit a few of the factories. I hear from Phineas that you can get a good deal on them.

Phineas · Post by **Phineas** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 7:33 am

fluteguy18 wrote:If you make a trip to Japan, you might as well try to visit a few of the factories. I hear from Phineas that you can get a good deal on them.

You are right. If you are going to buy a Japanese flute, this is the best way to go in my book. There are a lot of resources who are very helpful towards helping you make a purchase. There are even models that are not sold in the US that are available in Japan. I bought my Miyaza Legacy 1E, and my Yamaha 514 in Japan directly from the factory stores. For abit less than they would have cost in the US. Not to mention you can get your flute factory adjusted by the factory!!!!!

Phineas

snowstripedmoose · Post by **snowstripedmoose** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 5:02 am

hi,

I recently bought a new flute and a piccolo in Japan.

There are quite a few places you can go to try head joints out and if you take your flute with you they should be able to get it adjusted on the same day.

dolce musical instruments in Osaka had Powell headjoints when i was there in August, the guy there speaks English as well. Yamano in ginza also stocks a wide range of headjoints as well they have listings on their website of all the headjoint brands they stock.

there are numerous other places though you can go without having to go to the factories to get a great deal. Just a matter of knowing where to go.

wooloo · Post by **wooloo** » Sat Oct 11, 2008 11:51 am

Hi! I'm a fellow Singaporean too (though I'm currently in Hong Kong now for a few months).

With regards to Miya headjoints at bandworld, I have bought 1 from them myself a few years back. However, they had a very limited selection then (only .38mm standard thickness avaliable and one of each cut). Also be warned that even though the headjoint and body may be from the same maker and are of the same wall thickness, you still might need to get your headjoint sized, as was in my case. Different production batches of flutes might have certain small variations in the bore dimensions.

If you really need to get your headjoint sized in Singapore, I think your best bet would be Windworks at Paya Lebar (I've had 2 headjoints fitted there, 1 wooden and 1 silver, results are not too shabby). However, I would think that the level of service at reputable Japanese dealers should be just as if not more competent.

I would have loved to try out a Muramatsu before I bought my current heavy wall Miyazawa 402. However, Swee Lee was quite hesistant to let me try out the models unless I was certain to buy something, so I just stuck with something I was familiar with. Here in Hong Kong, most of the music dealers have no qualms about letting you play test their instruments. After playing a few sankyos, powells and other miyazawas, I'm glad that my current instrument seems to be the right one for me.

(I would still like to try a muramatsu though, which hopefully I will get to do so in a few days when I go to Taiwan!)

chaos0008 · Post by **chaos0008** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 12:04 am

Hi wooloo, nice to meet you!

Currently, I do my repairs and COA at Windworks(though actually I'd say it's closer to Aljunied than Paya Lebar). Both of them there are specialists in band instrument repairs. One plays the clarinet and the other the french horn. Perosnally, I usually get Sean to do my repairs so I'm not too sure about Yoke Lim. They're not bad, but considering I've never been to an actual flute specialist technician, I can't really compare their work.

I'd love to go overseas to try flutes! But sadly, reality doesn't allow it and I'm still stuck here in Singapore.

morningstar · Post by **morningstar** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 9:27 am

Great to see another SGean wooloo!

oh, the muramatsu is a great instrument, I bought without testing just based on it's repute alone and also having tried once last time on my teacher's. Although many say that it produces a warm and dark sound, I personally find it slightly sweet sounding with a warm edge, it's got great singing qualities especially the high registers (think Galway sound). But it took some time to coax the sound out though, and especially for me to transition from a miyazawa to a yamaha and then this, but it's a beautiful instrument to play once you get used to it. Which actually sometimes I feel makes testing of flutes redundant before buying...unless you are testing it for a week at least, or unless you are a pro or great player who can simply adjust to different brands and cuts just like that!

well, I will be sure to check out the Miya hjs the next time I'm there! thanks for the info