Which flute makes a good doubler flute for saxplayer?

[flutego12]

Peeps.
Your opinions sought.

Which flute makes a good doubler flute for a veteran saxplayer? Has to be reasonably cheap.
Plays mainly r&b, funk, Jazz and the blues. Expect to bring it on a gig from time to time wants a little power and good tone to it.
Early to mid Babyboomer gen. (not the tail end)

He was looking at a F100ASII or a 221 (price range). Any baulks or violent reactions on this?

ALL EARS

PS Jef Kearns plays on a basic Buffet Crampon and makes it sound so amazing. Any comments on BC flutes?

[pied_piper]

Both of those may be suitable. The sax player needs to play test them for his purposes. I definitely would not take a real expensive flute on a rock/jazz/R&B gig. Add to the possible list the Pearl 500 series and Armstrong 80 or 104. For gigs like those, buy a cheaper flute and a good mic so he can be heard over the other amplified instruments...

[mirwa]

Some of the 104's have been pretty good to late, light keywork good sealing pads, but I do have a soft spot for pearl flutes. So easy to play, however inconsistency still lets them down.

[flutego12]

Both of those may be suitable. The sax player needs to play test them for his purposes. I definitely would not take a real expensive flute on a rock/jazz/R&B gig. Add to the possible list the Pearl 500 series and Armstrong 80 or 104. For gigs like those, buy a cheaper flute and a good mic so he can be heard over the other amplified instruments...

Thanks, Bob. Your advice is much appreciated again. A relief to hear. Curious how the Pearl and Armstrong compare in tone to the Yams. Do you mean the earlier Pearls and Armstrongs or regardless of eras. Well, my friend bought a 221 in the end because I thought it was more suited to jazz.

[flutego12]

Some of the 104's have been pretty good to late, light keywork good sealing pads, but I do have a soft spot for pearl flutes. So easy to play, however inconsistency still lets them down.

Thanks Steve, I must come visit your establishment one day and try out all the flutes in your shop (!) How is the 104 different from it's family members? That is interesting and good to hear about the keywork and seal. How about durability and tone?

[jseligmann]

I play both sax and flute. My flutes of choice are a Haynes Commercial and a Yamaha 225. If you have a number of flutes to try out, be sure to include the 225 (or the newer 221, which is the same flute, different number), and if you have the money, the Haynes. If you have few flutes to sample, you can't go wrong with the Yamaha; the price is right, and it's an excellent flute, even if it is referred to as a student flute. Hey, we're all students.

[pied_piper]

Thanks, Bob. Your advice is much appreciated again. A relief to hear. Curious how the Pearl and Armstrong compare in tone to the Yams. Do you mean the earlier Pearls and Armstrongs or regardless of eras. Well, my friend bought a 221 in the end because I thought it was more suited to jazz.

BTW, I play sax and clarinet too... You can check out some of my collection in this thread (it's grown a bit since I posted these photos in 2007) :
http://www.fluteland.com/board/viewtopi ... f&start=20

I think a lot of the perception of sound rests with the individual. Yes, various flutes can sound different to the player (and listeners), but in the end, the player has control over the sound and s/he can alter the color to suit their taste. My main flute is a Muramatsu with a 14K Williams headjoint. I can sound very classical or very jazzy depending upon my mood and what I'm playing. I also have an Armstrong 80 and a Pearl 501 among others. None of them are quite as nice (to me) as my "Williamatsu" but to the listeners, most would not be able to notice a difference and tell me which I was playing. Personally, I find the Pearl to have a nicer sound and more flexibility than the A80. When I play gigs in less than ideal surroundings, I'll usually use the Pearl rather than risk my Wiiliamatsu. Even though it is a plated flute, the Pearl HJ cut is closer to my Williams HJ so I tend to like my sound better when playing it and comparing to my other alternates. I've played various Yammies and while they are nice flutes, they never suit my personal preference. YMMV...

To back up my position that it's more about the player than the flute, watch the Sir James Galway 16 flute demonstration video. In it he demonstrates everything from student model flutes to solid gold and platinum models.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0n3n3N3SOY

How much (if any) difference can you hear? Can you identify which flute he is playing at any given moment?

[mirwa]

I think most repairers learn to double / triple on many instruments. Its the joys of the job, you get to play what you could not afford.

Sax is my main axe.

I got to play a matched pair of buffett toscas which were shipped to australia for a local performer to use, they were pretty nice, but clearly beyond my skill level because I personally could not here a differeece to my buffet master model (all 25 bucks worth) and the tosca's.

Got to play a bass flute yesterday and a cor anglais. So these are the true joys of doing what we do.

[flutego12]

Thanks, Bob. Your advice is much appreciated again. A relief to hear. Curious how the Pearl and Armstrong compare in tone to the Yams. Do you mean the earlier Pearls and Armstrongs or regardless of eras. Well, my friend bought a 221 in the end because I thought it was more suited to jazz.

BTW, I play sax and clarinet too... You can check out some of my collection in this thread (it's grown a bit since I posted these photos in 2007) :
http://www.fluteland.com/board/viewtopi ... f&start=20Very interesting collection, Bob. I've gotten started on clarinets a couple of months back. Been wielding the screwdriver Great for jazz, some classics too. Love the lower register. Not sure I like the squealer 3rd. Going to pick up my Rovner lig to see if it helps tone it down. i know, it's the embouchure muscles that need firming. Somebody tell me flute and clarinet embouchures don't mix too good. Sorry wrong topic.

I think a lot of the perception of sound rests with the individual. Yes, various flutes can sound different to the player (and listeners), but in the end, the player has control over the sound and s/he can alter the color to suit their taste. My main flute is a Muramatsu with a 14K Williams headjoint. I can sound very classical or very jazzy depending upon my mood and what I'm playing. I also have an Armstrong 80 and a Pearl 501 among others. None of them are quite as nice (to me) as my "Williamatsu" but to the listeners, most would not be able to notice a difference and tell me which I was playing. Personally, I find the Pearl to have a nicer sound and more flexibility than the A80. When I play gigs in less than ideal surroundings, I'll usually use the Pearl rather than risk my Wiiliamatsu. Even though it is a plated flute, the Pearl HJ cut is closer to my Williams HJ so I tend to like my sound better when playing it and comparing to my other alternates. I've played various Yammies and while they are nice flutes, they never suit my personal preference. YMMV...yammies are my thang. love 'em. Think they are great esp the 221s

To back up my position that it's more about the player than the flute, watch the Sir James Galway 16 flute demonstration video. In it he demonstrates everything from student model flutes to solid gold and platinum models.I can tell the difference! Not precisely but generally but all that is lost when the flute is playing by itself. We all need a point of reference. It's all relative. eg a pair of speakers sound great until one compares it with another. or a TV looks like the ultimate until one gets to compare them side by side.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0n3n3N3SOY

How much (if any) difference can you hear? Can you identify which flute he is playing at any given moment?

noop

[flutego12]

Dudes... just saw this on a new local internet ad for used clarinets

"Much loved instrument which has developed a warm and deep tone through hours of practice. Perfect for a student as clarinet has already broken in past the squeaky stage (a great feature for all parents and neighbours throughout your street)."

and he is talking about a resin Buffet Crampon B12...

since when does resin need breaking in??!! what's this developed a warm and deep tone through hours of prac biz?

ALL EARS.

[pied_piper]

Dudes... just saw this on a new local internet ad for used clarinets

"Much loved instrument which has developed a warm and deep tone through hours of practice. Perfect for a student as clarinet has already broken in past the squeaky stage (a great feature for all parents and neighbours throughout your street)."

and he is talking about a resin Buffet Crampon B12...

since when does resin need breaking in??!! what's this developed a warm and deep tone through hours of prac biz?

ALL EARS.

Pure hogwash!!!! (the ad, not you... ) As far as the statement about "developed a warm and deep tone through hours of practice", it might apply to the player, but not a plastic instrument.

[flutego12]

Dudes... just saw this on a new local internet ad for used clarinets

"Much loved instrument which has developed a warm and deep tone through hours of practice. Perfect for a student as clarinet has already broken in past the squeaky stage (a great feature for all parents and neighbours throughout your street)."

and he is talking about a resin Buffet Crampon B12...

since when does resin need breaking in??!! what's this developed a warm and deep tone through hours of prac biz?

.

Pure hogwash!!!! (the ad, not you... ) As far as the statement about "developed a warm and deep tone through hours of practice", it might apply to the player, but not a plastic instrument.

hahaha! I should ask if it came with the player then.
this ad takes the cake for hogwashery!

[fluteguy18]

All of this talk reminds me of a Marcel Moyse quote. He had his flute laying down on a table during a break during masterclass and several students were looking at it VERY closely trying to figure out what about it made his tone so special. He called over to them and said: "What you're looking for... it's over to the left!"

Later in the class he commented that a student had a great sound and the student started to explain his flute. Marcel said: "Shh. I don't want to know where you got your flute. I want to know where you got your leeeps (lips)."

[flutego12]

All of this talk reminds me of a Marcel Moyse quote. He had his flute laying down on a table during a break during masterclass and several students were looking at it VERY closely trying to figure out what about it made his tone so special. He called over to them and said: "What you're looking for... it's over to the left!" uh hu-uh

Later in the class he commented that a student had a great sound and the student started to explain his flute. Marcel said: "Shh. I don't want to know where you got your flute. I want to know where you got your leeeps (lips)."

haw haw oui oui eet eees all eeen the leeeps moosel.