F# (Dkey) plays an F tone- hence double F in chromatic scale

[flutego12]

I hope someone can diagnose the root cause for this phenomenon.

F# when played sounds an F
When LH mechanism's A key is pressed, it affects my F# because Fkey travels downward with F# (when Dkey is also pressed). This does not happen when A key is not pressed. The mechanism is affecting the movement which is not right.

[pied_piper]

The spring is not hooked on the F key.

I made a short video to show how to fix it: http://sdrv.ms/102ZqCi

[mirwa]

F# when played sounds an F

Pied is correct with the first check, and I do suspect this is the problem, if it did not exist before but exists now after the strip and re-assemble

If it does not correct then you need to remove the lower key assembly.

For info the F# key itself is fixed to the rod that runs and holds the F/E/D keys on.

If that rod is bent / rusted / not lubricated correctly then the movement of any key can affect the movement of another. Example moving D can move F or E

This is why in a shop we depin the key assemblies as part of a service and clean and lubricate the shaft.

[mirwa]

When LH mechanism's A key is pressed, it affects my F# because Fkey travels downward with F# (when Dkey is also pressed). This does not happen when A key is not pressed. The mechanism is affecting the movement which is not right.

This sounds confusing even for me.

If when you press A and it moves F, then you have one of two problems, the first would be the bridge setup from F# to Bb is around the wrong way, that is you have the lever going under the lower key assembly rather than over

If when you operate A and it moves F#, then the touch point above F# is bent down to low, you need to lift the touch point clear of the key

Steve

[pied_piper]

If when you press A and it moves F, then you have one of two problems, the first would be the bridge setup from F# to Bb is around the wrong way, that is you have the lever going under the lower key assembly rather than over
Steve

That is certainly a possibility, but if the F spring is unhooked and the flute is held in the normal playing position, then while the E or D key is held closed and then the A key is depressed, gravity will cause the F key to close if the spring is not working. When the E or D key is depressed, if the A key is also closed, the A key in turn closes the Bb and then the bridge mechanism is lifted thereby allowing the F key to close from the effects of gravity. That would explain his problem.

In his other repair thread, flutego12 seemed to indicate that he had removed the RH stack. Since he didn't report the F key problem previously, that's why I think it is the F spring. Of course, the F spring could also be weak or bent so that there is not enough tension to lift the F key.

[mirwa]

If when you press A and it moves F, then you have one of two problems, the first would be the bridge setup from F# to Bb is around the wrong way, that is you have the lever going under the lower key assembly rather than over
Steve

That is certainly a possibility, but if the F spring is unhooked and the flute is held in the normal playing position, then while the E or D key is held closed and then the A key is depressed, gravity will cause the F key to close if the spring is not working. When the E or D key is depressed, if the A key is also closed, the A key in turn closes the Bb and then the bridge mechanism is lifted thereby allowing the F key to close from the effects of gravity. That would explain his problem.

In his other repair thread, flutego12 seemed to indicate that he had removed the RH stack. Since he didn't report the F key problem previously, that's why I think it is the F spring. Of course, the F spring could also be weak or bent so that there is not enough tension to lift the F key.

Pied is correct with the first check, and I do suspect this is the problem, if it did not exist before but exists now after the strip and re-assemble

If it does not correct then you need to remove the lower key assembly.

I thought that I had agreed

My further clarification was subjective to the spring not being the issue

[mirwa]

dbl post

[flutego12]

The spring is not hooked on the F key.

I made a short video to show how to fix it: http://sdrv.ms/102ZqCi

Way! Thanks for the video. Will download, not sure if compatible with the mac.
I am all googoo eyed with springs and have been running on intuition, which is not a good idea - hence so many partial reworks to disassemble reassemble.
With the late nights, have slowed a little.

It's all good now. Frankly I couldn't see the spring under the multiple rods. Now you see it now you don't. Anyhow after a couple of hours (2?) of oggling I bit the bullet and disassembled the flute and on reassembly it worked! It could be ALL OF THE BELOW! Just couldn't see it with all the layers.

Must sit down to itemize the steps for an E mech flute. Thanks Bob.

[flutego12]

F# when played sounds an F

Pied is correct with the first check, and I do suspect this is the problem, if it did not exist before but exists now after the strip and re-assemble

If it does not correct then you need to remove the lower key assembly.

For info the F# key itself is fixed to the rod that runs and holds the F/E/D keys on.

If that rod is bent / rusted / not lubricated correctly then the movement of any key can affect the movement of another. Example moving D can move F or E

This is why in a shop we depin the key assemblies as part of a service and clean and lubricate the shaft.

Thanks Steve, I suspect you are BOTH CORRECT, it was very strange, during the disassemble I OILED the rods/screws for the lower mechanism and it worked fine after that. I should attempt to do a proper COA including the de pinning. Perhaps the next one when I get the right equipment.

[flutego12]

If when you press A and it moves F, then you have one of two problems, the first would be the bridge setup from F# to Bb is around the wrong way, that is you have the lever going under the lower key assembly rather than over
Steve

That is certainly a possibility, but if the F spring is unhooked and the flute is held in the normal playing position, then while the E or D key is held closed and then the A key is depressed, gravity will cause the F key to close if the spring is not workingspot on, my observation too about gravity when upside down. When the E or D key is depressed, if the A key is also closed, the A key in turn closes the Bb and then the bridge mechanism is lifted thereby allowing the F key to close from the effects of gravity. That would explain his problem. ok you lost me there. will chew over it in the morning.

In his other repair thread, flutego12 seemed to indicate that he had removed the RH stack. Since he didn't report the F key problem previously, that's why I think it is the F spring. Of course, the F spring could also be weak or bent so that there is not enough tension to lift the F key.

Sorry I wasn't clear. This is A DIFFERENT FLUTE, on this thread I am referring to my allegro 371H with an E mech, hence a little different. My 221 went without a hitch thanks to you guys. I had mentioned this at the tail end of last thread and should have reiterated at the beginning of this thread.

[pied_piper]

I thought that I had agreed

My further clarification was subjective to the spring not being the issue

Sorry mirwa - I misread that part of your post. I didn't intend to disparage your comments, just to provide some additional details for Flutego12.

[pied_piper]

... during the disassemble I OILED the rods/screws for the lower mechanism and it worked fine after that.

Sometimes during reassembly, while hooking a spring in its lug, it may not quite go completely into the slot. If it's not all the way in there, then after working the keys a few times, it may pop off the lug and become unhooked. (Don't ask me how I know - Been there, done that. )

[flutego12]

... during the disassemble I OILED the rods/screws for the lower mechanism and it worked fine after that.

Sometimes during reassembly, while hooking a spring in its lug, it may not quite go completely into the slot. If it's not all the way in there, then after working the keys a few times, it may pop off the lug and become unhooked. (Don't ask me how I know - Been there, done that. )

Just happy it's workin' atm.
Incidentally a little miffed that the second clunker is now sounding/ playing better than clunker No 1 which has more cosmetic wear but which had initially blown me away by its tone and responsiveness - I was going to keep No 1 and off load No2. Now that No 2 is spoken for, I'm a little envious. I should change the headcork and see. Lead time to figuring out the grinder a little tiring, these corks should be less generous. Incidentally also, I should send for my tools, have added a few scratches to the flutes with my ... SCREWDRIVERRR!

[flutego12]

When LH mechanism's A key is pressed, it affects my F# because Fkey travels downward with F# (when Dkey is also pressed). This does not happen when A key is not pressed. The mechanism is affecting the movement which is not right.

This sounds confusing even for me.

If when you press A and it moves F, then you have one of two problems, the first would be the bridge setup from F# to Bb is around the wrong way, that is you have the lever going under the lower key assembly rather than overthat could be the case though I don't quite get the pic yet... will become apparent to me soon.

If when you operate A and it moves F#, then the touch point above F# is bent down to low, you need to lift the touch point clear of the key

This is GOLD Steve. Thank you!

Steve

[mirwa]

Sorry mirwa - I misread that part of your post. I didn't intend to disparage your comments, just to provide some additional details for Flutego12.

You were not disparaging at all. I clarified my view thats all, its hard sometimes to convey a message via an internet forum, I completley agreed with you, and was offering other options should that then not work.

Peace..

Steve