Tarnish

Woodwind Guy · Post by **Woodwind Guy** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 7:46 pm

I have a solid silver headjoint, and it has tarnish on the lip plate. Is there anything I can do to prevent more tarnish? And yes, I do clean my flute after I'm finished playing, if that helps!

flutepicc06 · Post by **flutepicc06** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 7:53 pm

Wiping down the flute after you play is the best way to prevent tarnish. Aside from cleaning out the bore, the exterior (particularly anywhere you have touched) should be wiped clean. Skin oils and perspiration contain chemicals that will attract tarnish causers, so removing those chemicals (I like a microfiber cloth for that) is a big step. Not polishing the flute will actually help slow down tarnish, as polishing exposes a whole new layer of silver to the air, and leaves it open to tarnish. If you wear any lotions or creams, you should wash those off before playing to be sure they don't interact with the silver. Short of that, don't worry about the tarnish much. It's a purely cosmetic problem, and will have no effect on how the flute plays, but excess polishing, particularly in the area of the lip plate, can, so if you MUST polish, don't do it too often. When it get it's annual maintainance, a good tech can remove the tarnish for you.

cflutist · Post by **cflutist** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 8:14 pm

I've been wiping my flute down with a little bit of alcohol on a cloth. That seems to cut through the oils etc. and retards tarnish formation.

But does anyone know if that will harm my flute?

flutepicc06 · Post by **flutepicc06** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 8:45 pm

cflutist wrote:I've been wiping my flute down with a little bit of alcohol on a cloth. That seems to cut through the oils etc. and retards tarnish formation.

But does anyone know if that will harm my flute?

As long as it's kept away from the mech, it shouldn't do any damage to the tubing. However, denatured alcohol is used during a COA to flush out the old oil, so if you allow the alcohol into the mech, it may lead to you having to get it lubricated again. It's a certainly not the worst thing you could do, as long as it's done with care.

cflutist · Post by **cflutist** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 9:06 pm

Flutepicc06,

Thanks, and yes I do keep it away from the mechanisim.

fluteguy18 · Post by **fluteguy18** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 9:26 pm

Absolutely. the alcohol shouldnt do any damage if used properly, and kept away from the mech. In a lot of cases, if you become ill, it is best to wash out the interior of the headjoint with hot water mixed with alcohol, so I see no problem in using it to clean the exterior.

cflutist · Post by **cflutist** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 9:43 pm

Here's another tarnish question for you experts.

I have 4 instruments in the house.

My Haynes flute and my GK (George Koregelos) wood piccolo have solid silver keys and seem to tarnish more easily than my two other instruments, even with the 3M strips in the case. I haven't played the picc for over a year and it was just kept in in the case.

My camping/outdoors flute and my Alto flute have silver plated keys and solid silver bodies and don't tarnish at all and look brand new even though they are about 5+ years old.

All 4 instruments are in the same house with the same environment. Why do the solid silver keyed instruments tarnish, but the plated key instruments do not (not even the bodies do)?

To further support my theory, the last time we had a "Flute Fest" at the house (where we play flute choir music) there were 4 Haynes Flutes in attendance, all of which were tarnished. Two other ladies had flutes with plated keys (a Gemeinhardt and a Sankyo), there was also a Pearl Alto, and a Gemeinhardt Bass with plated keys, and they all had no tarnish on them either.

Any clue to this mystery?

Woodwind Guy · Post by **Woodwind Guy** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 10:02 pm

Okay, I've wiped the lip plate where the tarnish was and then wiped it again with a dy cloth and there's no more tarnish!

flutepicc06 · Post by **flutepicc06** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 10:42 pm

cflutist wrote:Here's another tarnish question for you experts.

I have 4 instruments in the house.

My Haynes flute and my GK (George Koregelos) wood piccolo have solid silver keys and seem to tarnish more easily than my two other instruments, even with the 3M strips in the case. I haven't played the picc for over a year and it was just kept in in the case.

My camping/outdoors flute and my Alto flute have silver plated keys and solid silver bodies and don't tarnish at all and look brand new even though they are about 5+ years old.

All 4 instruments are in the same house with the same environment. Why do the solid silver keyed instruments tarnish, but the plated key instruments do not (not even the bodies do)?

To further support my theory, the last time we had a "Flute Fest" at the house (where we play flute choir music) there were 4 Haynes Flutes in attendance, all of which were tarnished. Two other ladies had flutes with plated keys (a Gemeinhardt and a Sankyo), there was also a Pearl Alto, and a Gemeinhardt Bass with plated keys, and they all had no tarnish on them either.

Any clue to this mystery?

My first guess would be different alloys. There's no way to be sure, but perhaps the plated flutes contain less silver than the solid flutes. Environment could vary from room to room within a house, anyway. Some flutes initially have a portective layer on them to prevent tarnish, and this comes off over time, as you polish it up. The Haynes (it's from 1967, right?) and the GK piccolo probably don't have this coating, while the others might. How often you play the instruments probably has a good bit to do with it as well. It's really impossible to find a conclusive answer to this, but I'm sure there is a reasonable explanation.

fluteguy18 · Post by **fluteguy18** » Sat Dec 23, 2006 9:09 am

My first thought was about the clear coating that flutepicc described. Most newer flutes I have found [ if not all] have a clear coat on them to prevent tarnish and other such flaws from happening [ plating coming off etc.]. I have had friend have the 'finish' put back on their flutes, and they came back looking amazing. all they had done to them, was the tarnish removed, and the clearcoat reapplied. This clearcoat often times helps people who are allergic to certain alloys [ at least I have found that it does]. In my expieriance, I have realized that my flute has the clear coating on it, because I can actually play my flute.

Unlike most people who are allergic to nickel or other metals in silver alloys, I am allergic to gold. If I have contact with it, I get a rash, and start to swell in that area. My flute has a 24k gold plate lip on it. I know that it isnt solid gold, but yet my allergy to gold is quite severe, so any alloy of gold whatsoever irritates my skin. So, my flute must have a clearcoat on it, or else I couldnt play it. Ironically, when it comes to flutes made of various metals, gold tends to be my favorite [ in tone and various qualities **given that it is a quality maker**].

So, I have assumed that the clearcoat has offered some sort of protection. I dont know the validity of my assumptions, so perhaps they are all fiction. But I do know that I can not have extended contact with gold, and I havent had any problems with my flute, or any gold flute whatsoever. Perhaps it is just the differences in alloy in instruments and jewelery.

Who knows? My best guess for your situation though, is that your newer instruments are coated, and your older ones arent.

Zevang · Post by **Zevang** » Sat Dec 23, 2006 1:56 pm

Guys, there is also the fact that every person is different. Some produce more acid sweat. In this case, nothing can avoid tarnishing, except sending the flute to a good technician for cleaning, from time to time. Note that this woudn't avoid tarnishing, but after cleaning you have a brand new instrument again...

Some flutists avoid over cleaning their flutes saying that this could make permanent marks over the silver alloy (and it does...).

Personally I think that it's better not to polish the flute constantly. Instead, I just clean it with a common cloth. But that's my case, because I don't acid sweat...

I good technician can clean most of the tarnishing of a flute. This doesn't make any marks on the silver, because it's completely chemical, not mechanical as when we polish.

Zevang

P.S. Have you all a nice holiday season.

fluteguy18 · Post by **fluteguy18** » Sat Dec 23, 2006 3:49 pm

Absolutely! I had a problem like Zevang mentioned. The levels of acid in my skin oils [ there is acid in everyone's skin oils, but the acidity levels vary] didnt agree with the specific silver alloy of the flute I was playing at the time. The flute turned black. Needless to say, I was glad that I was upgrading at the end of the semester. I havent really had that problem since. When and if I have, I have just cleaned more carefully and the blackness went away.

So, OP, it is probably a combination of the silver alloys, any clear coat, and your specific skin oil chemical make up. If you eat a lot of citris fruits, this could be part of the problem [ the citric acids raise the acidity in one's skin oil--- or so I have been told ]. Other beverages high in acids [ juice, soda, tea, coffee **contains botanic acids which are used to tan leather** etc. etc. ]. So, if it is a result of your chemical make up, then if might be because of large intake of acidic foods.

Zevang-- I had forgotten all about the skin acids you mentioned. Thanks!

Zevang · Post by **Zevang** » Mon Dec 25, 2006 3:04 pm

fluteguy, you're welcome

That's the big deal of sharing in a community like this...We all have lots to learn.

cheers,
Zevang