Straubinger Pads
Moderators: Classitar, pied_piper, Phineas
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fluteguy18
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sidekicker
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- Location: Scottish-American in Oklahoma
Yes, a good point. And, by the way, the tech that would be doing the work who has apparently done them successfully on Haynes's like mine many times is in the same geographic area in which I live. So, perhaps, that is where those raves come from. They apparently do just fine in my neck of the woods.
In any case, if I go with them I'm very unlikely to go forward with it unless I get some type of guarantee that if such noise occurs I can have them removed and traditional pads put back on free of charge. Any tech unwilling to make that type of guarantee may not be one worth working with in the first place.
SK
In any case, if I go with them I'm very unlikely to go forward with it unless I get some type of guarantee that if such noise occurs I can have them removed and traditional pads put back on free of charge. Any tech unwilling to make that type of guarantee may not be one worth working with in the first place.
SK
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flutepicc06
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I respectfully disagree with that statement. Padding takes a huge amount of very precise work from a tech. Yes, it would be nice to get a guarantee like that, but so long as the tech has done everything possible to ensure they operate properly, I don't think it's really fair to ask that. It was your decision to have those pads put on your flute, not the tech's, and Straubingers especially represent a huge investment in time and effort for the tech. To just decide you don't like them and ask to have it repadded again with traditional pads free of charge is not really fair. Not to mention the huge cost of Straubingers in comparison to other traditional pads. It's not like you can simply pull them out of one flute and save those pads for some other flute. They would almost certainly have to be discarded. Personally, I couldn't imagine asking a tech to make such a guarantee. Perhaps a guarantee on the quality of their work with the pads, stipulating that if any problems arise, they will deal with them free of charge, but a full repad, just because they don't work with your particular instrument? IMHO, that's a bit excessive, considering all the other work (which equals money) the tech could be taking care of rather than repadding a flute for free when they've really done nothing wrong.sidekicker wrote: Any tech unwilling to make that type of guarantee may not be one worth working with in the first place.
SK
Last edited by flutepicc06 on Sat Dec 30, 2006 6:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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fluteguy18
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fluttiegurl
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Keep in mind that these pads may not be for all flutes (as I had stated last year), and I never thought about the climate. I have a friend in TN who had the same problem. Humidity and frequent temp changes could be the issue. If you do make the decission to have them installed, it is not necessarily the techs problem that you do not like them unless they are installed incorrectly, which apparently happens fairly often as well.
I have really been out of the loop, but I recently went back to felt pads on all of my flutes. The problems that I had with the Straubingers making noise is apparently a common one that I have discussed with several top techs and a flute maker who all say that it is a possibilty. I also tried the gold foil pads and did not like them. One of the biggest issues is that even though I liked both pads initially, they did not thrill me after a decent amount of time playing. Both sets were put on by top techs, and I do not believe that was the issue. Maybe I am just very old school, but I decided that felt pads are for me. The initial response is not worth having to deal with the added noise for a considerably longer period of time. Just my 2 cents.
I have really been out of the loop, but I recently went back to felt pads on all of my flutes. The problems that I had with the Straubingers making noise is apparently a common one that I have discussed with several top techs and a flute maker who all say that it is a possibilty. I also tried the gold foil pads and did not like them. One of the biggest issues is that even though I liked both pads initially, they did not thrill me after a decent amount of time playing. Both sets were put on by top techs, and I do not believe that was the issue. Maybe I am just very old school, but I decided that felt pads are for me. The initial response is not worth having to deal with the added noise for a considerably longer period of time. Just my 2 cents.
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sidekicker
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- Location: Scottish-American in Oklahoma
Any other comments?
Fluteguy -- I disagree with your "wasteful, and a bit unfair" remark, as it shows, IMO, a lack of understanding of what I may have meant and options under consideration, but will leave it at that. If you want to go further on that subject, feel free to PM me after re-reading my post and doing a little more thinking.
SK
Fluteguy -- I disagree with your "wasteful, and a bit unfair" remark, as it shows, IMO, a lack of understanding of what I may have meant and options under consideration, but will leave it at that. If you want to go further on that subject, feel free to PM me after re-reading my post and doing a little more thinking.
SK
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fluteguy18
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I just think it is a slight misunderstanding on both sides, and no issue for arguement. Perhaps I wasnt clear with my remark, so I will just rephrase it.
I just thought it was a bit unfair to have Straubingers put on [ pay for the pads, and installation] then if they werent to your liking having traditional pads installed free of charge [the tech not recieving monetary compensation for price of the pads, and his/ her time and expertise in installation] . It just seemed to me wasteful by means of that the straubingers would have to be ripped out, and thrown away when they were perfectly good pads that someone else could have used.
I do think that a guarantee on the quality of installation is perfectly fine.. But, just having them replaced free of charge because you didnt like them seems a bit unfair to me.
I hope that clears things up. If you continue to disagree take it up with not only me but a couple of others here who share the same opinion. But, I dont think that starting a heated debate/ argument would get us anywhere. It would just cause tension that this board doesnt need.
I just thought it was a bit unfair to have Straubingers put on [ pay for the pads, and installation] then if they werent to your liking having traditional pads installed free of charge [the tech not recieving monetary compensation for price of the pads, and his/ her time and expertise in installation] . It just seemed to me wasteful by means of that the straubingers would have to be ripped out, and thrown away when they were perfectly good pads that someone else could have used.
I do think that a guarantee on the quality of installation is perfectly fine.. But, just having them replaced free of charge because you didnt like them seems a bit unfair to me.
I hope that clears things up. If you continue to disagree take it up with not only me but a couple of others here who share the same opinion. But, I dont think that starting a heated debate/ argument would get us anywhere. It would just cause tension that this board doesnt need.
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sidekicker
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- Location: Scottish-American in Oklahoma
It was obviously a mistake to bring this question back up in this forum. Sorry to have wasted everyone's time on this. I really had hoped to get some good advice instead of public rebukes for suggesting some type of guarantee on tech work.
So I guess we can just close up this thread; it's no longer helpful to anybody.
SK
So I guess we can just close up this thread; it's no longer helpful to anybody.
SK
Just a Note for all
Hello Everyone;
This has been an interesting thread to read. I think I have an answer to several questions presented. Over the "holidaze" I had dinner with an old attorney friend, who is now a judge. Here are her replies to some of the questions about the technician's responsabilities in the labor and installation of materials (pads) -this is all contract law, by the way. So, here goes: 1) the customer made the choice of which materials (pads) to have installed by this particular technician. It was by his/her knowledge and consent that the materials (pads) were installed -hence, this is the contract agreeded upon by both parties; 2) as long as the technician installed the materials (pads) in the proper manner as agreeded upon, the technician is not responsible for installing a different material (pads) on the flute to accomodate a change in preference by the customer -unless this arrangement was specifically agreeded to PRIOR to the installtion; 3) if the materials (pads) were defective, the customer has the right to request remedy for damages (bad pad job). If the product (pads) were not defective and were installed properly, the customer does not have right to demand remedy. Finally, 4) the technician had a "duty to perform" (fullfill their part of the contract) AND the customer entered the contract willingly with full knowledge (made the selection of pads) as long as both parties fullfilled their respective parts of the contract, there is no remedy owed by the technician.
Sorry to disappoint, but I was curious about this topic too.
This has been an interesting thread to read. I think I have an answer to several questions presented. Over the "holidaze" I had dinner with an old attorney friend, who is now a judge. Here are her replies to some of the questions about the technician's responsabilities in the labor and installation of materials (pads) -this is all contract law, by the way. So, here goes: 1) the customer made the choice of which materials (pads) to have installed by this particular technician. It was by his/her knowledge and consent that the materials (pads) were installed -hence, this is the contract agreeded upon by both parties; 2) as long as the technician installed the materials (pads) in the proper manner as agreeded upon, the technician is not responsible for installing a different material (pads) on the flute to accomodate a change in preference by the customer -unless this arrangement was specifically agreeded to PRIOR to the installtion; 3) if the materials (pads) were defective, the customer has the right to request remedy for damages (bad pad job). If the product (pads) were not defective and were installed properly, the customer does not have right to demand remedy. Finally, 4) the technician had a "duty to perform" (fullfill their part of the contract) AND the customer entered the contract willingly with full knowledge (made the selection of pads) as long as both parties fullfilled their respective parts of the contract, there is no remedy owed by the technician.
Sorry to disappoint, but I was curious about this topic too.
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fluteguy18
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sidekicker
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Thanks for the info, Masters. Although, I'm unsure whom you think you have disappointed. It looks to me like you have disappointed flutepicc and fluteguy because #2 in your post is exactly what I was talking about (i.e., having an agreement upfront about replacement with traditional pads before the work is done; therefore, the tech then takes on the risk of negative results and can decide whether to go forward or not).
I also happen to be an attorney and one thing needs to be stressed here: a contract is defined in simplest terms by a "meeting of the minds". That means that liability for things attaches not just to the pad chooser, but also to the technician who may be recommending them, installing them, etc., and they are just as bound by the terms of the agreement. So, if I have an upfront agreement (like the one I mentioned), then the tech has agreed to take on that risk and owes the agreed upon remedy in the event of dissatisfaction. Plus, I think it's worth mentioning that nothing I could find on the Straub website warns or even mentions the possibility of a "clicking" type noise, and it is my understanding that they won't even send them to a tech who hasn't been properly trained in their installation. So, by definition, if such occurs then there should at least be a presumption (rebuttable, maybe) of poor workmanship involved.
Once this meeting of minds occurs, usually best done in writing, a contract is formed and a remedy is available. Determining what that remedy is can be done by the parties via their agreement (contract), or by a court. But generally, and I'm not sure what state your attorney friend practices in, there is always a remedy available when a contract is formed and it's not unusual to have that remedy carved out beforehand; again, something I had in mind.
In any case, I'm about 99 percent sure now that I will just have traditional pads put on. I didn't mean this to turn into the firestorm it did. But it has convinced me that such questions are not appropriate for this forum. It has had very unfortunate repercussions, for which I now have deep regret.
Thanks for your input, though.
SK
I also happen to be an attorney and one thing needs to be stressed here: a contract is defined in simplest terms by a "meeting of the minds". That means that liability for things attaches not just to the pad chooser, but also to the technician who may be recommending them, installing them, etc., and they are just as bound by the terms of the agreement. So, if I have an upfront agreement (like the one I mentioned), then the tech has agreed to take on that risk and owes the agreed upon remedy in the event of dissatisfaction. Plus, I think it's worth mentioning that nothing I could find on the Straub website warns or even mentions the possibility of a "clicking" type noise, and it is my understanding that they won't even send them to a tech who hasn't been properly trained in their installation. So, by definition, if such occurs then there should at least be a presumption (rebuttable, maybe) of poor workmanship involved.
Once this meeting of minds occurs, usually best done in writing, a contract is formed and a remedy is available. Determining what that remedy is can be done by the parties via their agreement (contract), or by a court. But generally, and I'm not sure what state your attorney friend practices in, there is always a remedy available when a contract is formed and it's not unusual to have that remedy carved out beforehand; again, something I had in mind.
In any case, I'm about 99 percent sure now that I will just have traditional pads put on. I didn't mean this to turn into the firestorm it did. But it has convinced me that such questions are not appropriate for this forum. It has had very unfortunate repercussions, for which I now have deep regret.
Thanks for your input, though.
SK
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fluteguy18
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sidekicker
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Thanks to all who have contributed to my revival of this thread. I've already made my decision, but something should be said before we button this up, IMO.
Most of the discussion that has occurred went private between me, flutepicc, and fluteguy. Somehow, our posts to each other degenerated to a level beneath which I operate, and I was no less an offender than anybody else along the way. I wrote many things to them that could be considered rude, insensitive, brash, condescending and, quite frankly, un-Christian. It could be the age gap, or some other reason. I don't know and it doesn't really matter. What matters is that my own behavior toward them is worthy of re-evaluation and I plan on making that effort.
So I offer them both a formal apology for anything, but public and private, I may have said to or about them that falls into the above categories behavior. I hope they will accept it and we will all be able to move on from this. Everyone has a lot to offer here, and I'm very sorry for how this ended up. It certainly was not my intention.
SK
Most of the discussion that has occurred went private between me, flutepicc, and fluteguy. Somehow, our posts to each other degenerated to a level beneath which I operate, and I was no less an offender than anybody else along the way. I wrote many things to them that could be considered rude, insensitive, brash, condescending and, quite frankly, un-Christian. It could be the age gap, or some other reason. I don't know and it doesn't really matter. What matters is that my own behavior toward them is worthy of re-evaluation and I plan on making that effort.
So I offer them both a formal apology for anything, but public and private, I may have said to or about them that falls into the above categories behavior. I hope they will accept it and we will all be able to move on from this. Everyone has a lot to offer here, and I'm very sorry for how this ended up. It certainly was not my intention.
SK
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fluteguy18
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I am a forgiving person by nature, so I have no hard feelings. I dont neccessarily forgive and forget, but rather forgive and be mindful of what could happen in the future and try to avoid any conflicts of the same nature. So, hopefully these silent wars wont happen again. I do indeed accept your apology.
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flutepicc06
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