"The smiley goes on the chin"

sinebar · Post by **sinebar** » Sun Jul 29, 2007 6:19 pm

I just watched a Jennifer Cluff video about embouchure and I think I gained a bit of insite. She said the bottom part of the lip plate that looks like a smiley goes on the chin. I assume now that it must be touching. I have been playing with this part way off the chin and the flute pressed against the lip. I'm now trying to correct this but I find it difficult to play with the flute in that possition. Do most of you play like Jen described?

Anne · Post by **Anne** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 7:39 pm

I just tried playing with the bottom of the lip place touching my chin and couldn't get any sound. Seems way too low like that to me. I play with it just off my chin. Hmmm. I wonder if it depends on the shape of your mouth etc. I'd be interested to hear opinions from other more experienced players. Thanks for bringing it up sinebar.

pied_piper · Post by **pied_piper** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 8:53 pm

Perhaps the definition of chin can vary from person to person. I define it as the entire area below the lip. So, if you agree with that, then "chin" can cover a fairly large area - especially if you have a chin like Jay Leno

fluteguy18 · Post by **fluteguy18** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 10:53 pm

I define "chin" as the actual bone and some fatty tissue around it that makes your "chin". Above it, I consider the muscles of your lower lip. So, when I say dont supress the lower lip, I mean dont press on the actual lip that is comprised of mostly fatty tissue and is a different pigment than the surrounding tissue.

sinebar · Post by **sinebar** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 5:56 am

Anne wrote:I just tried playing with the bottom of the lip place touching my chin and couldn't get any sound. Seems way too low like that to me. I play with it just off my chin. Hmmm. I wonder if it depends on the shape of your mouth etc. I'd be interested to hear opinions from other more experienced players. Thanks for bringing it up sinebar.

Well you're not alone on that one. I also can not play with it actually touching my chin. It must be off the chin just a little and I don;t think that Jen Cluff meant that literaly but just as a starting point. I was playing with the head joint rolled back from off center quite a bit which placed the lip plate mostly on my lip causing me problems.

Anne · Post by **Anne** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 1:45 pm

This is interesting http://www.jennifercluff.com/lineup.htm

I've always aligned my embouchure hole with the outer edge level with the outer edge of the first key, which is how it is explained in the book I learned from originally. Interesting that she recommends aligning the outer edge with the centre of the keys. It does make sense that the more contact you have with the chin area, the less strain you will put on your thumbs in supporting the flute. I often find my hands get pretty stiff and cramped. I'm going to give that alignment a whirl. At least my arm position seems to be good, elbows down. I seem to have to support the flute with the sides of my thumbs instead of the pads though. My thumbs just don't seem to turn around far enough to be able to do that.

sinebar · Post by **sinebar** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 7:06 pm

Anne wrote:This is interesting http://www.jennifercluff.com/lineup.htm

I've always aligned my embouchure hole with the outer edge level with the outer edge of the first key, which is how it is explained in the book I learned from originally. Interesting that she recommends aligning the outer edge with the centre of the keys. It does make sense that the more contact you have with the chin area, the less strain you will put on your thumbs in supporting the flute. I often find my hands get pretty stiff and cramped. I'm going to give that alignment a whirl. At least my arm position seems to be good, elbows down. I seem to have to support the flute with the sides of my thumbs instead of the pads though. My thumbs just don't seem to turn around far enough to be able to do that.

Hey thanks for that link! I'm one of the 75% who can only get a good tone with the outer edge lined up with the center of the keys. I thought I was doing it wrong.

Anne · Post by **Anne** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 7:44 pm

You're welcome. I just listened to that jazz piece you posted in another thread. Nice. I think I could manage the first part of it. Will give that one a try.

Iolaus · Post by **Iolaus** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 10:23 pm

Anne wrote:This is interesting http://www.jennifercluff.com/lineup.htm

I've always aligned my embouchure hole with the outer edge level with the outer edge of the first key, which is how it is explained in the book I learned from originally. Interesting that she recommends aligning the outer edge with the centre of the keys. It does make sense that the more contact you have with the chin area, the less strain you will put on your thumbs in supporting the flute. I often find my hands get pretty stiff and cramped. I'm going to give that alignment a whirl. At least my arm position seems to be good, elbows down. I seem to have to support the flute with the sides of my thumbs instead of the pads though. My thumbs just don't seem to turn around far enough to be able to do that.

Interesting set of articles.

About the thumb position. Something was covered in the article, and that I have recently become aware of through a discussion on the Galway Yahoo Group is that I had been positioning my right thumb incorrectly for years. I was taught as a child to use the right thumb for vertical support and my pinky for forward pressure. This was easy enough to do then, when I only practiced an hour or less a day; but now, with increased practice time, it is resulting in soreness in both fingers. Now, I realize that placing the thumb back enough to press forward a bit will alleviate both problems, and free up my pinky for quicker key work.

The discussion in question was concerning something called a Thumbport (http://www.thumbport.com), a device that is supposed to help support the rearward roll of the flute; it appears that it also facilitates a more rearward positioning of the thumb as well. Jen Cluff was a part of that discussion, and endorsed the attachment (she also mentioned a few pros that use it). Here's a blown up portion of a picture from the article you linked to; you can see the item clipped to the flute under her right hand.

I realize that attaching something to your instrument might seem a bit sacrilegious to some - I kinda have a problem with it myself - but a lot of other types of instruments have supports built into the construction of the instrument, and it seems to be effective, so if it works....

Here's the first post of that thread, with the rest of the thread below it, if anyone's interested.
http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/Ga ... sage/11021