Difficulty with low register still after one year
Moderators: Classitar, pied_piper, Phineas
Difficulty with low register still after one year
I am looking for encouragement by posting this message here.
After over a year of taking lessons, I *still* have a great deal of difficulty producing any reasonable solid full tone from low F#-F-E-D#-D-C#-C-B. The sound comes out "whispy", for lack of a better word, with no body, and sometimes even has, to my ears, a "gurgling" quality to it. My teacher says it sounds fine, but I'm a perfectionist and I can easily hear the difference in my sound quality from these notes to anything above.
I have a Yamaha 461H (solid silver, low B), and I just finished reading the thread here about which flute to buy and why to or not to go with solid silver. I don't think that's the issue. I've had a few professional flutists play my flute to make sure there's nothing mechanically wrong, and they can get a beautiful sound.
So, I know it's me. Should it really take this long before a beautiful sound can be produced from the lowest notes? Please be kind. LOL
Thanks.
*****
Update 9/26/08: Oops, I just realized I really should have posted this in a different area of the board relating to playing issues, and not instruments. Sorry
After over a year of taking lessons, I *still* have a great deal of difficulty producing any reasonable solid full tone from low F#-F-E-D#-D-C#-C-B. The sound comes out "whispy", for lack of a better word, with no body, and sometimes even has, to my ears, a "gurgling" quality to it. My teacher says it sounds fine, but I'm a perfectionist and I can easily hear the difference in my sound quality from these notes to anything above.
I have a Yamaha 461H (solid silver, low B), and I just finished reading the thread here about which flute to buy and why to or not to go with solid silver. I don't think that's the issue. I've had a few professional flutists play my flute to make sure there's nothing mechanically wrong, and they can get a beautiful sound.
So, I know it's me. Should it really take this long before a beautiful sound can be produced from the lowest notes? Please be kind. LOL
Thanks.
*****
Update 9/26/08: Oops, I just realized I really should have posted this in a different area of the board relating to playing issues, and not instruments. Sorry
Last edited by andy957 on Fri Sep 26, 2008 2:47 pm, edited 3 times in total.
- atoriphile
- Posts: 155
- Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2006 2:35 pm
- Location: Washington, DC
Thanks for your reply. Yes I put the plugs back in, thinking that could have been the problem, but it didn't help. Funny enough, though, is that there ARE times when the lower notes sound rich and full and dark (I prefer a darker sound in that register)....I once even thought it sounded like overtones of an oboe or English horn.atoriphile wrote:Maybe you're not covering the open holes completely. Have you tried putting plugs in the holes?
If you have problems even with the plugs, then it could be your embouchure. Your teacher should be able to help you with that.
Good luck!
Do you think it might be worth a test to go to the place where I bought my flute here in Toronto to try a few others to see if the problem exists? They have a very amazing selection from the most basic Gemeinhardt all the way up to solid gold Powells.
- vampav8trix
- Posts: 120
- Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2008 12:03 pm
- Location: USA
Have you had your flute checked for leaks?
It could be that those keys are leaking. You flute just might need a tune up.
Has your teacher tried the notes on your flute? If he/she has a hard time than I would think that it is the instrument. But even if they are able to make the notes sound good, you should still get the horn checked.
Trying different instruments off the shelf may not help because they could need adjustments out of the box. When you buy a new flute, you should have it set up by a professional flute tech so that you can get the best out of your flute.
I bought a used flute and it sounded great. I took it to a tech and he got rid of all the leaks and it sounded even better.
Give it a try.
It could be that those keys are leaking. You flute just might need a tune up.
Has your teacher tried the notes on your flute? If he/she has a hard time than I would think that it is the instrument. But even if they are able to make the notes sound good, you should still get the horn checked.
Trying different instruments off the shelf may not help because they could need adjustments out of the box. When you buy a new flute, you should have it set up by a professional flute tech so that you can get the best out of your flute.
I bought a used flute and it sounded great. I took it to a tech and he got rid of all the leaks and it sounded even better.
Give it a try.
- pied_piper
- Posts: 1962
- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 1:31 pm
- Location: Virginia
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- Posts: 2311
- Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 3:11 pm
Sorry to break it to you, but getting a really great sound in any register is something that takes constant work. It takes many players quite a long time to build a solid tone that sounds great in every octave. Keep working on it, and keep trying alternative embouchure shapes/methods. Just make sure that things are open, and you are blowing down.
I wish I could help, but my tone is just one of those things that I had a natural knack for. I have always had a big clear sound from top to bottom that projects well.
Besides, many players have this issue anyhow. Your low register may just always be your weakness. So just work on it. And trust your teacher. We don't always hear ourselves accurately. Actually, we seldomly hear ourselves accurately. That is why recording yourself it important.
I wish I could help, but my tone is just one of those things that I had a natural knack for. I have always had a big clear sound from top to bottom that projects well.
Besides, many players have this issue anyhow. Your low register may just always be your weakness. So just work on it. And trust your teacher. We don't always hear ourselves accurately. Actually, we seldomly hear ourselves accurately. That is why recording yourself it important.
- sidekicker
- Posts: 311
- Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2006 5:58 am
- Location: Scottish-American in Oklahoma
Hi Andy --
What tone exercises are you using, or how are you currently working to solve this problem?
I would suggest, if you haven't used it already, the Moyse collection "De la Sonorite". It's published by Alphonse Leduc (which means overpriced . But it has some terrific exercises in it that can and will develop your tone.
I, too, started with great difficulty in the lower register; most likely because I began playing on a student level Gemeinhardt. However, since you've had others play your flute and it seems not to be a mechanical problem, there is work for you to do on your embouchure to develop it more.
If you cannot afford De la Sonorite, I would suggest two wonderful exercises from it that, after 30 years of playing, I still use as my normal warm up:
1. Begin on top line F. At 60=quarter note (and use a metronome here), play quarter notes F, F#,F, G, F G# . . . and that pattern all the way up to high C. Then do the same thing going all the way down to low C (or B): top line F, E, F, Eb, F, D . . . all the way down. The first time you do these exercises, play all of the notes short, but solid and not cracked. The second time, slur two notes at a time: F-F#, F-G (slurred) and so on. Your next pattern will start from the note above and slurred: F#-F, G-F, and so on.
After you've done all of this going up and down the scale from F, then play the sequence in triplets up and triplets down: F, F#, F would be your first triplet to each quarter note (at 60).
While you do this mammoth exercise pay particular attention to the quality of sound you are getting from every single note. Make sure every single one is clear, not cracked, and solid. When you begin the slurring exercises, make sure it is even and no break between notes -- as smooth as possible (yes, it gets much more difficult to do that as the interval between notes increases; that's why it's an exercise )
2. Begin on B just above the staff and use the rhythmic pattern of quarter note followed by dotted half, and at 60=quarter note. Go from B down to Bb, B-A, B-Ab . . . all the way down to low C or B.
Once you do that, then do the same pattern up to high C (B-C, B-C# . . .)
It's extremely important in both exercises to NOT rush them and to discipline yourself not to be satisfied with a cracked note. This is not a technical exercise; it is a tone exercise. If you crack a note, repeat it if you like. The more important concern is not to get all the notes right, it is to get the best sound you can on all those notes.
Try those out and see how you do. Good luck!
SK
What tone exercises are you using, or how are you currently working to solve this problem?
I would suggest, if you haven't used it already, the Moyse collection "De la Sonorite". It's published by Alphonse Leduc (which means overpriced . But it has some terrific exercises in it that can and will develop your tone.
I, too, started with great difficulty in the lower register; most likely because I began playing on a student level Gemeinhardt. However, since you've had others play your flute and it seems not to be a mechanical problem, there is work for you to do on your embouchure to develop it more.
If you cannot afford De la Sonorite, I would suggest two wonderful exercises from it that, after 30 years of playing, I still use as my normal warm up:
1. Begin on top line F. At 60=quarter note (and use a metronome here), play quarter notes F, F#,F, G, F G# . . . and that pattern all the way up to high C. Then do the same thing going all the way down to low C (or B): top line F, E, F, Eb, F, D . . . all the way down. The first time you do these exercises, play all of the notes short, but solid and not cracked. The second time, slur two notes at a time: F-F#, F-G (slurred) and so on. Your next pattern will start from the note above and slurred: F#-F, G-F, and so on.
After you've done all of this going up and down the scale from F, then play the sequence in triplets up and triplets down: F, F#, F would be your first triplet to each quarter note (at 60).
While you do this mammoth exercise pay particular attention to the quality of sound you are getting from every single note. Make sure every single one is clear, not cracked, and solid. When you begin the slurring exercises, make sure it is even and no break between notes -- as smooth as possible (yes, it gets much more difficult to do that as the interval between notes increases; that's why it's an exercise )
2. Begin on B just above the staff and use the rhythmic pattern of quarter note followed by dotted half, and at 60=quarter note. Go from B down to Bb, B-A, B-Ab . . . all the way down to low C or B.
Once you do that, then do the same pattern up to high C (B-C, B-C# . . .)
It's extremely important in both exercises to NOT rush them and to discipline yourself not to be satisfied with a cracked note. This is not a technical exercise; it is a tone exercise. If you crack a note, repeat it if you like. The more important concern is not to get all the notes right, it is to get the best sound you can on all those notes.
Try those out and see how you do. Good luck!
SK
Semi-related question. Any of you watch Nina Perlove's videos on YouTube? I personally think her sound and technique are among the best I've heard in ages - almost a "watch out Galway & Rampal" kind of thing (I know Rampal is dead ). She has a complete video on her breathing technique she calls "Active Breathing". Curious if you have watched it and tried it and what you think. I'm wondering if that could help with my low register problem.
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I love Nina! Her approach to breathing is by far the most effective method that I have found. I modified it slightly to fit me better, but I found it to be very useful. I was fortunate enough to attend a class that she gave about "active breathing" and it was very fascinating to hear the differences in a person's tone in a matter of seconds. I was also lucky enough to play for her about a year ago, and she is more impressive in person. She is a very aggressive player, and slightly intimidating, but all around excellent.
I'm very jealous.fluteguy18 wrote:I was also lucky enough to play for her about a year ago, and she is more impressive in person. She is a very aggressive player, and slightly intimidating, but all around excellent.
I live in Toronto Canada and was even thinking of writing to her to find out if she gives "evaluation" lessons, where a student comes to play for criticism/suggestions as a one-shot deal. But she's in Kentucky - not too close to Toronto.
I think her playing is brilliant, to wit the Telemann B minor Fantasia, the Ibert Solo and many of the others she has posted. Her sound is rich, full, colorful, dynamic... as you can tell, I'm a great admirer. She also has a wonderful, clear, easy-to-understand way of teaching. She clearly has had success and knows what she is doing. So why don't we hear more about her?
- pied_piper
- Posts: 1962
- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 1:31 pm
- Location: Virginia
Well, you might consider asking her if you could send her a recording (either audio or video) for her to evaluate and comment. - Or - Perhaps you could arrange an online lesson via webcam...
Either way, your chances would improve if you offered to pay her a lesson fee.
Either way, your chances would improve if you offered to pay her a lesson fee.
"Never give a flute player a screwdriver."
--anonymous--
--anonymous--
Actually, in the meantime I sent her a message via YouTube and within about 10 minutes got a reply. She said she does give these types of lessons and charges $70/hour, which in terms of a professional, is quite fair, I think. Her location is right outside of Cincinnati, which isn't impossible for me...so we'll see. Thanks for your feedback.pied_piper wrote:Well, you might consider asking her if you could send her a recording (either audio or video) for her to evaluate and comment. - Or - Perhaps you could arrange an online lesson via webcam...
Either way, your chances would improve if you offered to pay her a lesson fee.
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ya nina's tone is nice and her thoughts on breathing are very insightful but i would have to disagree in terms of her musicality. its lacking something that galway and rampal (and gallois for sure) have/had (rip rampal).....she draws her audience with tone, they draw their audience with music...subtle to notice but at the same time a very big difference.
I'm also having a similar problem with C#, C, and B. A couple days ago I asked my teacher about these notes. Her answer was that sometimes these lower notes are just hard for some people. She suggested that I continue doing the Trevor Wye long tone exercises, and to focus my air stream more downwards. She suggested that my breath should: 60% go into the flute and 40% go out of the flute.
For the most part, any sound I get with those three notes is VERY quiet. I haven't been able to get it to the loudness of the other notes.
Good luck - and hang in there
For the most part, any sound I get with those three notes is VERY quiet. I haven't been able to get it to the loudness of the other notes.
Good luck - and hang in there