Nielson / Ibert

livinlife63 · Post by **livinlife63** » Sat May 02, 2009 9:14 pm

What do you think of doing the Nielson or Ibert Concerto for College (conservatory) Auditions?

Lauren.

fluteguy18 · Post by **fluteguy18** » Sun May 03, 2009 11:23 am

If you can play them WELL, I would say go for it! But, it is becoming habit for many players to start learning these pieces too early in their development as musicians.

So, if you can play it well, do one of them. If not, then choose something that will show off your strengths better. But, I would first recommend checking out the audition requirements at the various schools first.

sidekicker · Post by **sidekicker** » Sun May 03, 2009 6:47 pm

I would take neither of those pieces to a college audition.

What makes both those concerti so terrific is the whole package: flute with large orchestra. Although they are both difficult, some of the greatest musical challenges in both pieces lies a lot in the flutist's ability to play it with an orchestra and its various components (in the Nielsen, for example, dueling with the trombonist). The flute part alone just does not say much about your flute playing, and for college level auditions you need to find the smallest amount of music (because of time constraints) that will show off the largest number your traits as a musician. Believe me, no flute professor at a major institution is going to be all that impressed by someone who can play either of those pieces perfectly; they hear it all the time.

The only concerti I would consider taking to a college audition is either of the Mozarts. That's because (a) most flute professors want to see if you can pull off Mozart correctly (it's much, much, more than just playing the notes) and (b) there is a ton of musicianship, if you have it, that can be packed into just the exposition of the first movements of either Mozart concerti. For audition purposes, the Mozart concerti just do not require the whole deal as much as Nielsen and Ibert do.

I have always tended to think the late Romantic/early 20th century French pieces make for the best ones to take to a college audition; again, there is usually a lot of music jam-packed into a small amount of time. Any of the two-part pieces in Flute Music by French Composers works well to deliver up your skills in technique, tone colour, phrasing, breathing, and overall command of the instrument. Also, I would add a Telemann Fantasia to show how you can change your sound and articulation appropriately to an entirely different musical period. The Fantasias work very well for this because you need no accompaniment and have a clean slate upon which to work to show off how well your baroque ornamentation skills are. Although I'm sure many will disagree, I would also not take a Bach sonata unless it were specifically required. Like the Ibert and Nielsen, the challenges are in putting the whole package together convincingly, not just playing all the right notes.

Just my opinion. But I would do yourself a favor and stay away from taking either of those concerti to a college audition unless they are specifically requested by the audition committee.

SK

livinlife63 · Post by **livinlife63** » Sun May 03, 2009 7:07 pm

Thank you. I totally understand what you were saying about the whole package and it makes a lot of sense. For almost every school a Mozart Concerto is required and I'm going to do the one in G. Bach is only required for a few schools but other than that most of them then add 2 contrasting works. What pieces would you recommend that would show off what the judges are looking for? I've heard that the dutilleux is a great piece for that. What else would you recommend?

stewyflute13 · Post by **stewyflute13** » Mon May 04, 2009 12:03 am

if you're looking for other options in addition to dutilleux, there is also sancan, the martin ballade, jolivet (chant de linos), berio sequenza, varese Density 21.5

btw, i told you those bc i asked fenwick smith the same exact question and he told me those before auditioning at NEC.

if you meant in contrast, hmm yes the french composer's book is good but if you want something a little bit harder maybe consider the reneicke sonata "undine," or the schubert "variations on trockne blumen." those are good. a baroque piece, well maybe the marin marais les folies d'espagne (only one variation because of time restraints, as sidekicker stated) or hmm yes i would definitely agree a Telemann fantasia would be wonderful

hope this helps!

sidekicker · Post by **sidekicker** » Mon May 04, 2009 12:08 pm

livinlife63 wrote:Thank you. I totally understand what you were saying about the whole package and it makes a lot of sense. For almost every school a Mozart Concerto is required and I'm going to do the one in G. Bach is only required for a few schools but other than that most of them then add 2 contrasting works. What pieces would you recommend that would show off what the judges are looking for? I've heard that the dutilleux is a great piece for that. What else would you recommend?

Yes, Dutilleux works well except for the fact that it's a little long for the time you normally get. I had that piece in my own audition repertoire and never got to finish it. A very good rule of thumb that I learned from my wonderful teacher, the late Thomas Nyfenger, is that if you really like the piece you are playing, that is most likely the type of piece you should be playing; i.e., that is a piece that successfully shows off your skills to the max. It's pretty easy to tell, and I know from my own experiences on audition committees, that a flutist hates the work they are playing.

Some other works I would recommend in the unaccompanied, shows wide range of skills, category would be the Ferroud -- Three Pieces (any one is wonderful) and Bozza -- Image.

I would be careful in picking unaccompanied (or even accompanied ones, for that matter) pieces that have too many extended techniques or are very new works. Having been one myself, a flute professor normally wants to hear something they already are familiar with; that's how they gauge how well you are doing. If you bring some weird piece full of finger clicks, singing/playing/stomping feet, etc., composed by your friend the next Leonard Bernstein, I can almost assure that you will not be considered at all for a student. That's because one of the traits often looked for, and just as often missed by auditioners, is how well you know the standard flute literature. Picking something way out in left field that nobody has ever heard of tends to imply you may not know what are considered standard flute works and which are on the fringe. That, to me, is a very important thing to project to your audition committee. Your choice of music should also give a hint that you know what you are doing in this field, have gone through a lot of the standard literature, and selected those pieces that best reflect your playing style.

I've said this over and over on here, but the number one most important thing to do in an audition is to show how you are as a flutist. It is rather easy to detect the Galway fan, the Bennett groupie, etc., so don't even waste your effort. Don't ever, ever, ever, copy someone else's style just because that's the recording you have, know, or just like. Many pieces have been recorded with horrible (or questionable) interpretations. You will fool no one, most likely, and you'll just look like someone who can't generate any ideas about a piece by yourself and instead have to hear someone else do it before you can play it. Before anyone yells at me, I'm not saying recordings are bad at all; in fact, I encourage flutists to gather as many recordings of a particular piece as possible so we can learn from other people. My remarks are restricted to copying the interpretation of someone else because you can't come up with your own, or are unwilling to put the effort into seeking fresh (and appropriate) ideas. That is where the real skill in flute playing lies.

Skill as a flutist must include putting your own interpretive stamp on a piece. Nobody looking for a serious student wants to see a clone of someone else, because that's just more to undo in the teaching process. The audition committee wants to see someone different, whose own unique style of playing can be honed into something marvelous! That's why I harp on choosing pieces that have you moving from one style to the next -- and also changing your playing to accommodate those styles. If you sound the same playing Bach as you do Gaubert, you will likely not be noticed (nor will you probably get into that studio).

My rant is over now

. Best of luck to you!

SK

stewyflute13 · Post by **stewyflute13** » Mon May 04, 2009 12:30 pm

sidekicker- how funny, my teacher's teacher was also tom nyfenger- so cool!

also, were you saying that martin, sancan, and jolivet were footstompin', singing/playing, finger-clickin' songs- cuz they are not! and also, they are very standard 20th century works they are much like dutilleux

i totally agree with you on that the judges are looking to see if you can play bach wholly differently than debussy, or dutilleux, or mozart, or beethoven, or whatever... very good point

anyways, i'll let you two sort this out 'cuz i feel like i'm getting in the way

sidekicker · Post by **sidekicker** » Mon May 04, 2009 7:48 pm

Nyfenger was a terrific man, as well as a brilliant flutist and teacher. You come from very good lineage! I guess that makes us somewhat related in flute genealogy

.

stewyflute13 wrote:also, were you saying that martin, sancan, and jolivet were footstompin', singing/playing, finger-clickin' songs- cuz they are not! and also, they are very standard 20th century works they are much like dutilleux

I said nothing of the sort. Please re-read my post. I was talking about non-standard repertoire which I described somewhat tongue in cheek as a piece composed by a friend, etc., or someone else completely unknown in the music field. I'm fully aware that the Martin, Sancan, and Jolivet are part of the standard repertoire, and never described them the way you say; so I'm not sure where all that comes from. Although each has minor extended techniques (like flutter tonguing), this was not the type of music to which I was referring. I apologize for not being more clear on that.

Also, please note that "songs", as a discrete musical genre, are sung; i.e., the person is the instrument. While the flute has many vocal-like qualities, the music composed for it (or any other non-human instrument) is not generally within the musical genre of a song. I'm not trying to be nit-picky or insulting; but you will really embarrass yourself at most institutions of higher learning by referring to the flute literature as this song and that song. And little things like this that might slip out during that always uncomfortable dialogue occuring just before and just after a college audition might make for a negative impression. During the college audition experience, you always want to do whatever possible to communicate that you are a serious musician in as many ways you can.

SK

stewyflute13 · Post by **stewyflute13** » Mon May 04, 2009 11:27 pm

Thank you sidekicker for your advice. I really appreciate it and will take it to heart. You seem like you are very professional and experienced in the flute world. I'm sorry to have been so rash and quick with my words and not listening well to what you wrote.

stewyflute13

livinlife63 · Post by **livinlife63** » Tue May 05, 2009 3:22 pm

Thank you so much for all of your help. You seem very experienced and I will definitely take your advice into consideration. What do you think of the Reinecke sonata? I'm in love with it!

stewyflute13 · Post by **stewyflute13** » Tue May 05, 2009 4:55 pm

it's wonderful. a perfect romantic piece. you'll only get to play one movement tho, because of time restraints. i just found a full-length recital performed by a student at julliard named emily thomas who plays the reinecke sonata on i-tunes, and it's a podcast and its free! (it's also a video)- so great deal! check it out.. just type in emily thomas on i tunes and you should get it -

stewyflute13

sidekicker · Post by **sidekicker** » Wed May 06, 2009 9:43 am

livinlife63 wrote:Thank you so much for all of your help. You seem very experienced and I will definitely take your advice into consideration. What do you think of the Reinecke sonata? I'm in love with it!

This is a wonderful piece. If you take it, I would play only part of the first movement or part of the second movement (including the piu lento section). If you take a piece like this that is so dependent upon the interworkings of flute and piano, though, I would suggest you know the score impeccably. In other words, don't just learn the flute part and count rests. It is not unusual for major music schools to have a pianist in the audition who can play anything in the flute literature. The Reinecke, being a very standard work, will probably be firmly under the pianists fingers. If you don't know how this piece works with the piano, and you do it for the first time in an audition, you will really embarrass yourself. That's the downside to playing this wonderful work; you'll really need a pianist to practice with and the piano part is extremely difficult. Even if there is no pianist at your audition, you can be sure that the auditioners will be able to tell whether you know the score or now by how you approach rests, phrasing, etc.

Why not a piece like Busser, Enesco, Gaubert, Taffanel? Yes, they are played a lot, but they also show a lot of what you need to show. An audition is very different from a recital; in the latter you are there to entertain, in the former you are trying to communicate as much about your musicianship as possible in a very short number of minutes. The approaches are entirely different. That's why it doesn't matter so much that you play well-known and often played music. It also gives you the opportunity to put your own personal stamp on it.

Good luck!

SK

livinlife63 · Post by **livinlife63** » Fri May 08, 2009 9:44 pm

Thank you! All of your information has been a huge help in my decision making process! What do you think about Poem by Griffes? im not sure if its a good piece for an audition or not. Ive played it many times and love the piece but im not sure how well it would fir for an audition.

sidekicker · Post by **sidekicker** » Sat May 09, 2009 9:19 am

Unless Griffes is a required piece, or you have a lot of time (like 20+ minutes), I would not take it. It is a wonderful piece; however, it's a little long for an audition and does not have, IMO, enough stuff packed into it that will show you off to the max as a musician.

You might look at some 19th century literature like Tulou, Demersseman, and Doppler, as well as anything early 20th century like Taffanel, Gaubert, Busser, Perilhou, Enesco, Faure. Flute music from the mid 19th to mid 20th century (i.e., 1850-1950 rough range) would be the musical period I would aim for in a college audition.

Many years ago when I did my NYC auditions, the pieces I took with me were: Dutilleux Sonatine, Bozza Image, Tulou Grand Solo 13, Kuhlau Divertissement No. 5. I did not play all of these at each audition; I basically went with what I felt most comfortable pulling off that particular day. They were all very tight under my belt, though.

SK

livinlife63 · Post by **livinlife63** » Sat May 09, 2009 5:49 pm

thank you for all of your help. im sorry that i have so many quesitons its just that i want to make sure the pieces that i play for my auditions arethe perfect choices!
I've hnever heard the Tulou Grand Solo 13 before and I just listened to it,,, wow! i absolutely just fell in love with it! thank you for introducing it to me!