When is a flute 'too old'?

[Zevang]

10 years???!!! It's an absurd, sorry Cathy. Did this french teacher played your flute to make such a comment?

I have friends here in this very Forum owning flutes from the 60's and even 50's, playing wonderfully.

Really, serviced 3 times all this time means it must be in bad condition. But, this is nothing a good technician cannot overcome.
If you have the money to buy a new flute, OK. But don't just give up your current flute. If you want to sell it, it would be good to have it serviced anyway, so you can at least declare it playable. On the other hand, even if you buy another one, you can keep this one as your spare, always ready whenever you need it.

So, anyways, bring the flute to a good and complete revision. It deserves this

Now, saying that flutes last only 10 years and that the metal get tired... Never heard of a teacher saying that before...

[flutego12]

Hi - I need a bit of advice. I'm an adult learner but have been playing for 20 years on the same flute. It's a decent enough flute (an Armstrong that cost me about £250 - could have been £150, can't rightly remember. That was in 1992 - I've always quite liked its tone).
Various teachers have suggested I upgrade my flute - if I have the money - fair enough, it was not an expensive flute and I would love to buy a more expensive one, but....
At the moment I live in France and my most recent flute teacher is saying I should buy another flute because my own flute is 'too old'. Something about the metal being tired/worn out/drawn/too thin? (didn't understand the vocabulary properly).
Anyway, I feel under a lot of pressure and it's a bit upsetting. I quite like my flute and think I only have two options: 1. to have it serviced (which it needs - I've only had it done about 3 times in its life) or 2. to spend more and get a better flute. She is giving me the impression that she thinks my own flute is just not 'nice' - I now feel quite self-conscious when I play it in front of her, since I also know that she doesn't like the way I play.
What is everyone's opinion on the idea that a flute only has a limited life - she says 10 years is too old?

Zevang is right. He is one of the sages here.
I'm so sorry for your experience (too). I remembered asking a similar question recently and was advised that any flute can be restored 1) if it is justifiable to do so and 2) if you have the funds to do so. I know what it's like esp if you LOVE your flute. This could be just a simple case of different national audial preferences (different sounds for different genres flute music),eg perhaps the french flute teachers prefer a more ethereal sweet french sound from an oval cut hj versus the big open projecting american sound for copland landscape pieces. Being an Armstrong, I'm guessing yours could be sporting the NON-french sound? Sometimes for the nationalistic french, anything "non french" is regarded as almost sacrilegious .(I say this in jest)

on the other hand, ... apparently, (rightly or wrongly depending on the teacher's integrity HOW this is approached) some teachers are retained by some flute shops to funnel their students there and the practice or idiom of "never going flute shopping by yourself, and making sure that you bring your teacher along" feeds the practice (I'm not saying always, but) could well form part of the commission gravy train. This apparently is an accepted practice, I'm told, which confirmed my early suspicions. Most teachers are professionals however and I expect would approach the exercise with the highest integrity with the welfare of their student foremost in their mind. Though it is tremendously helpful, invaluable almost to have a well meaning, well informed and experienced ear & presence to advise on this matter, esp on your very substantial investment... it could well be also that a small sum of your payment forms your teacher's commission. Not all teachers. Just some. (sometimes if influential & commercially driven or if they are exceptionally good friends with the retailer). In your case, ... or perhaps it's another case of lost in translation?. Metal too tired/ thin? That's a good one. Unless yours has a nickel silver core + your silver plating has worn off completely + you're allergic to nickel silver which some ppl are. (sorry, I don't know which model you have, if it's full silver, I'm told they can be infinitely repaired if you would fork out the $$$) Most teachers will just say get your golden oldie overhauled etc UNLESS of course the cost of doing so exceeds the cost of a new flute with its "technological advancements" which perhaps in their opinion justifies an upgrade... I don't know. But if your flute means that much to you. Keep it. Hopefully you have a flute technician friend help you fix it. Just my thoughts as a sentimental flute owner. And I hope I don't get stoned for this by anyone. Hope this helps.

[evrmre]

Find another tutor, for a start. Unless she is especially good, or has skills you are particularly looking for. If you've been playing for 20 yrs, and are happy with your current progress, then learning from someone who is making you uncomfortable in your playing may well be counter productive.

As for the flute, it sounds a little far fetched to me, as the others have suggested. You might have a flute that is tuned to a pitch not commonly used in france (some are pitched at 440Hz, some at 441Hz, and even some at 442Hz. Those are the ones I'm aware of, anyway, and I gather different parts of the world have preferences.). This might cause your teacher to wonder about it's condition, if she hasn't considered that it might be differently pitched.

But get it checked by a good tech. If you have it serviced, than at least you'll know it's as playable as it should be, and will have a second opinion from someone who knows the instruments better. And if you like the tone, and it is in full playable condition... don't change a thing. (Or at least not unless you happen to try an instrument that makes you think you've died and gone to heaven, that is... ) No matter what others think, you play first because you want to play. When you find that upgrade that you want to make, great. But only because you want it, not to keep others happy...

[flutego12]

Find another tutor, for a start. Unless she is especially good, or has skills you are particularly looking for. If you've been playing for 20 yrs, and are happy with your current progress, then learning from someone who is making you uncomfortable in your playing may well be counter productive.

As for the flute, it sounds a little far fetched to me, as the others have suggested. You might have a flute that is tuned to a pitch not commonly used in france (some are pitched at 440Hz, some at 441Hz, and even some at 442Hz. Those are the ones I'm aware of, anyway, and I gather different parts of the world have preferences.). This might cause your teacher to wonder about it's condition, if she hasn't considered that it might be differently pitched.

But get it checked by a good tech. If you have it serviced, than at least you'll know it's as playable as it should be, and will have a second opinion from someone who knows the instruments better. And if you like the tone, and it is in full playable condition... don't change a thing. (Or at least not unless you happen to try an instrument that makes you think you've died and gone to heaven, that is... ) hahaha...by that I think evrmre might be referring to the EXIII. No matter what others think, you play first because you want to play. When you find that upgrade that you want to make, great. But only because you want it, not to keep others happy...

words of wisdom

[Zevang]

and making sure that you bring your teacher along" feeds the practice (I'm not saying always, but) could well form part of the commission gravy train

So true, Flutego!

[mirwa]

If you purchased your flute in 1992, then its already 21 years old.

Flute technology especially in headjoint designs have improved over the last 21 years, especially the last 6.

I would suspect that your instrument doesnt just need a repair but more like a mechanical overhaul, mechanical overhauls can be extremely expensive, repads are relatively cheap in comparison.

I dis-agree regarding the comments given to you about metal fatigue over a 10 yr period, it will make no difference how many years have gone bye.

A cheaper flute may be more economical. Pearl flutes are nice but in the 505 series you need to test play them first, just dont buy one out of the box, for me they are a bit hit and miss, the 525's are better and more consistent between flutes.

Good luck

[Bo]

A flute gets old when it is not properly/regularly serviced or maintained, but if you do regularly have it serviced it will be fine for decades. I would advise you to so so ASAP and you will notice the difference!

[flutego12]

Hi All, ...I'm kind of coming roung to the idea that maybe I would enjoy having a new flute.
So thanks again all of you for your 'food for thought'!

Good to know there is light at the end of the tunnel for you! Happy hunting. It's almost a holy grail. Second hand is great, and europe is such a big market as is the US. lucky you!

[CathyT]

So - update if anyone is interested. I bought my new flute. It is a Yamaha 'Plutus' with an embarrassing gold plate around the embouchure (which seems to impress everyone else). Any thoughts on this feature? Seems purely cosmetic to me although Yamaha have a good deal to say on the subject. I did buy (and choose between 3 models) from a really good shop in Dijon specialising in sax/flute - taken there by my teacher, but I liked the shop myself when I got there, although was rather intimidated by it all. I preferred a lovely Altus flute, but it was way out of my budget (if I carry on, maybe later?). HOWEVER even my husband could hear the clarity in the new flute (did the old one just need re-padding at €350 as opposed to €760 for the new flute?). Anyway, not a bad decision, given my budget. All in all I am more comfortable and like the new flute's sound - if nothing else I have an open hole, inline G like 'everyone else' here!
Problem now is that my teacher still hates the way I play - the way I stand, the way I breathe, my embouchure, my little 'natural' vibrato (which I put down to 40 years of smoking). Every lesson and practice session has become agony. All I have in my head now is her voice telling me I'm doing everything wrong. I am 56 and started playing 20 years ago. I achieved a scrape-through Grade 7 and now I'm thinking of giving up (finally seriously, after many times considering it!), because I feel that I'm getting worse, not better (and, at the moment, I'm working very, very hard!).
What to do? A tough decision - you know that need to sing for mental health that people sometimes talk about? I need to soar a bit in music and the flute is my only way of doing that. I'm afraid I do music for me, no one else (although I'm in local orchestra and part of a little troupe that accompanies Renaissance dancers in our village). But I've got to the stage where I'm ashamed of my own voice.
What would you do?

[PurpleShadow]

So - update if anyone is interested. I bought my new flute. It is a Yamaha 'Plutus' with an embarrassing gold plate around the embouchure (which seems to impress everyone else). Any thoughts on this feature?

Anyway, not a bad decision, given my budget. All in all I am more comfortable and like the new flute's sound - if nothing else I have an open hole, inline G like 'everyone else' here!

Congrats on the new flute! Spiffy feature, in my experience seems to do more for aesthetics than sound. YMMV. Glad you like the sound and are comfortable with it!

Problem now is that my teacher still hates the way I play - the way I stand, the way I breathe, my embouchure, my little 'natural' vibrato (which I put down to 40 years of smoking). Every lesson and practice session has become agony. All I have in my head now is her voice telling me I'm doing everything wrong. I am 56 and started playing 20 years ago. I achieved a scrape-through Grade 7 and now I'm thinking of giving up (finally seriously, after many times considering it!), because I feel that I'm getting worse, not better (and, at the moment, I'm working very, very hard!).
What to do? A tough decision - you know that need to sing for mental health that people sometimes talk about? I need to soar a bit in music and the flute is my only way of doing that. I'm afraid I do music for me, no one else (although I'm in local orchestra and part of a little troupe that accompanies Renaissance dancers in our village). But I've got to the stage where I'm ashamed of my own voice.
What would you do?

Seriously... As others have posted, get a new teacher ASAP and/or take a break from lessons for a while. In agony is no way to be! A hobby is supposed to be fun... If you're keeping up with what the orchestra and Renaissance troupe are playing/requiring, then keep practicing for those and play for yourself! Nothing wrong with that! Progressing through the grades isn't a destination or the end-all... It just expands the pool of available music to play. (In my opinion.)

Examine what you're trying to do... Are you taking lessons to advance to a point of joining a larger orchestra, or taking lessons for personal fulfillment and a desire to get better in general? Either way, I'm not sure I would stick with an instructor that was constantly negative.

(Disclaimer: I haven't taken lessons in years, kept playing as a hobby but never pursued formal education in flute past high school ~20 years ago. I have taught a few beginning students who moved on to other teachers. I have improved my own playing since stopping lessons through online resources, attending master classes as an audience member, and diversifying into more genres of music.)

Get back to a point of enjoying playing again: let your musical expression soar!

[trumpettech]

One of the best flutes I have ever repaired was over a hundred years old. It was inscribed "made for Selmer by G.W. Haynes."

[LondonFluteFixer]

Lots of flute players in the ITM world regularly play instruments that are over 100 years old, and I know that Matt Malloy of The Chieftans played a Pratten type flute from the late 1800's for a couple of decades with the band, playing gigs all over the world.

I would say that a flute that is "too old"...is all in the eye of the beholder.

[flutego12]

Good to know

[Bo]

It also depends on the quality of the flute. A good flute will last for decades; a bad flute will not, but the real problem is quality, not age.

[fluteguy18]

Often times when we feel like we are getting worse the real culprit is that we are finally starting to hear better. You can't fix a problem if you can't hear it. Chances are, are that you are finally hearing some of the problems in your playing. Whether or not you get a new teacher is up to you. It is a teacher's job to instruct, correct, and offer competent critiques of your playing. That is what you are paying them for: to instruct, to correct, and to critique. If your teacher is being judgmental and a bully, then you should move on to another teacher that does not belittle you. I would not however shy away from a teacher that is truly honest, straight-forward and spot on with their criticism (even if they seem harsh). Sometimes it's a matter of humility in those moments. Yes, we feel vulnerable, but more often than not, it is little more than the heat of a refiner's fire. Clay will never become porcelain without heat and hard work.

I recommend truly listening to yourself while you are playing, and then recording yourself and listening back. Try video taping yourself. Are the comments accurate? If they are, then I would stick with it and keep on keeping on. To achieve something you have to work for it, and sometimes that means putting your feelings aside. Playing should always be fun however. Find something you can play at home that is simply for the joy of playing, and toss all criticisms aside during those moments. In those instances, what you sound like simply doesn't matter. Just play the dang thing and play the heck out of it. Make it joyful and fulfilling. It's during these 'trials' in our playing (where we feel we are getting worse) that we are actually doing most of our improving.

Just remember: Life's a climb, but the view is great.