SOS Assistance Sought : Visual Inspection of this Flute

[flutego12]

Assistance Sought : Visual Inspection of this Flute

HELP - Is this flute salvageable? Asking price is $229 - overpriced if you ask me.

Can someone advise about the condition of the flute
1) riser on blowing edge - is that a case of the silver plating worn-off or patina?
2) inside the headjoint of this flute does not look silver either. Why is that? Is that bad?

3) is that RUST along the ribs (parallel to springs) - omg it looks rusty!

Appreciate quick comments. How much would you value this as is?

Thank you.

[mirwa]

From what little I can see, and Im going of the key cup design and the G mechanism, it looks like a yamaha 225.

The discolouration is called tarnish, its where the subsurface material leaches through the thin plating and leaves a residue on the surface, it comes of with a jewellers cloth

The riser is typical of a plated instrument

If its a 225 then the price is very fair

Steve

[flutego12]

From what little I can see, and Im going of the key cup design and the G mechanism, it looks like a yamaha 225.

The discolouration is called tarnish, its where the subsurface material leaches through the thin plating and leaves a residue on the surface, it comes of with a jewellers cloth

The riser is typical of a plated instrument

If its a 225 then the price is very fair <<<This is before $50 postage

Steve

Hello Steve, Thank you for your advice. You were pretty close with the model guess It's a 221. Will you safely say from the yellow of the patina that this is silver plated and not nickel silver? Will the yellow in the headjoint come off?

[mirwa]

Thats pretty much impossible to tell from a picture.

[flutego12]

Thats pretty much impossible to tell from a picture.

When leaching happens, it's a sign the silver is going correct?

[mirwa]

No,

Its natural.

All materials are made from something, example steel is made from ferrous oxide amongst many other things, if you let the steel corrode it reverts back to its natural state "rust". Same with aluminium and everything else.

Silver will tarnish as it oxidises, this is natural.

Thinly plated silver tarnishes quicker than items made from natural silver, which tarnishes far slower.

[flutego12]

No,

Its natural.

All materials are made from something, example steel is made from ferrous oxide amongst many other things, if you let the steel corrode it reverts back to its natural state "rust". Same with aluminium and everything else.

Silver will tarnish as it oxidises, this is natural.

Thinly plated silver tarnishes quicker than items made from natural silver, which tarnishes far slower.

I see. So the golden colour is the tarnish and not the exposed nickel silver. Thanks Steve.

To clean would you recommend 1) baking soda 2) polishing cloth 3) toothpaste? 4) a professional

[Zevang]

Guys, don't forget that tungsten lights make objects look yellowish.
For me, not only the parts mentioned look yellowed, but the whole picture

[flutego12]

Guys, don't forget that tungsten lights make objects look yellowish.
For me, not only the parts mentioned look yellowed, but the whole picture

can you not see the RODS look very strangely unsightly brown on the underside.?

[pied_piper]

When silver tarnishes, it starts out as a tan to brown color and over time turns black. Silver tarnish is simply silver sulfide which is an oxide of silver and sulfur. Slver sulfide tarnish forms from contaminates in the air everywhere. On the upper/top surfaces, the silver sulfide tarnish simply gets rubbed off by contact with fingers and polishing cloths. On the underside of the key rods and around the areas underneath the keys, it does not get rubbed off because it is not easily accessible in normal use. This is very typical of flutes which have not had regular maintenance (I.e. a COA). During a COA, the flute is disassembled and the tarnish is removed (polished off) by the technician. Everyone likes a shiny flute, but tarnish in no way affects the playability or durability of the flute.

If you watch some of Greg Patillo's early beatboxing YouTube videos, you'll see that he was playing a flute that is BADLY tarnished all over! And he still sounds amazing...

[fluteguy18]

Assuming that the flute is in decent playing condition it seems like a fair price to me. I agree with Zevang that the lighting is an issue (the lighting is 'warm' indicating a light with a yellow or orange tint to it). Normally this flute sells in the $600-800 range new so $229 is probably a good deal honestly if you would have to put less than $100 work into it. Used flutes on average sell for about 80% the current price of the same model in 'new' condition assuming they're in impeccable condition.

[Zevang]

Guys, don't forget that tungsten lights make objects look yellowish.
For me, not only the parts mentioned look yellowed, but the whole picture

can you not see the RODS look very strangely unsightly brown on the underside.?

Yes I can Flutego. But this must be only a reflex of the brown color on the case interior...

[flutego12]

Thank you, Mirwa, PiedPiper, Fluteguy & Zevang for your thoughts.

The flute is a year 2000 issue hence 13 y.o. "made in Japan' but assembled in USA and by the looks of it not been COA'd much and shows considerable wear and tear.
$229 is prob a fair value (haven't seen pads but am told they are good) but the disqualifier is the postage which is a plus $52. ($281)

Does that mean Greg Patillo does not COA his flute? Perhaps in his case he leaves the patina on on purpose. eg an all over tan.

[az1983]

@ Flutego12

Greg has his Powell COA'd but he always tells them not to polish

[flutego12]

@ Flutego12

Greg has his Powell COA'd but he always tells them not to polish

heheh... thought so. Not sure the owner to above yammy COAs that 13yo which has less patina

The seller hasn't exactly clarified about the "foreign matter" or chip on the lip plate. Is it a pc of hardened skin picking? ew
Quite frankly if a flute chips, surely that is not the color? Light yellow. If a flute chips it should be same color?