One sees a sporadic one or two on ebay or special antique flute websites.
Just wondering, how hygienic are old wooden flutes esp 150 yo ones which have changed countless hands through the generations.
Will the wood harbor and incubate bacteria?
How does one disinfect a flute? eg the wooden Louis Lots or Rudall Cartes
Antique wooden flute HYGIENE
Moderators: Classitar, pied_piper, Phineas
Antique wooden flute HYGIENE
flutist with a screwdriver
Re: Antique wooden flute HYGIENE
You should not and do not need to sterilize a wooden flute, no matter how old it is. Infectious bacteria/viruses are only an issue if someone sick just played it recently and handed it back to you - but that would be just as true with a silver flute. Oil the flute properly and don't worry about bacteria. Barrier oils are useful as a preventative against excess moisture. Talk to a clarinet repair person if you don't know how to oil a flute, as the main issue/complication with oil application is avoiding oil on the pads.
Now, if a wooden flute is badly stored over the years - in a cellar, the tropics, or an airtight container - you might have an issue with molds or fungi, but you'd smell or see such problems long before they harmed you. If so, have the flute properly restored (you'll probably need to, anyway, for the pads, key lubrication, etc.). But if the flute has been kept in proper playing condition, you and the flute will be just fine - certainly don't concern yourself with old bacteria!
More at issue with old wooden flutes is making sure that they have been properly re-humidified before playing them again for hours - bring them back to health slowly (fifteen minutes at a time, then half an hour, etc.). Wood that is suddenly exposed to lots of moisture too suddenly may expand unevenly and crack.
Now, if a wooden flute is badly stored over the years - in a cellar, the tropics, or an airtight container - you might have an issue with molds or fungi, but you'd smell or see such problems long before they harmed you. If so, have the flute properly restored (you'll probably need to, anyway, for the pads, key lubrication, etc.). But if the flute has been kept in proper playing condition, you and the flute will be just fine - certainly don't concern yourself with old bacteria!
More at issue with old wooden flutes is making sure that they have been properly re-humidified before playing them again for hours - bring them back to health slowly (fifteen minutes at a time, then half an hour, etc.). Wood that is suddenly exposed to lots of moisture too suddenly may expand unevenly and crack.
Re: Antique wooden flute HYGIENE
Thanks for yr advice, Gordon, woodies are so temperamental & high maintenance aren't they. Do you play wooden instruments. I saw E Gaston play Casterede's Etude No 5 on YouTube with her Abell flute which sounded simply divine in the old abbey. ... after weeks of mooning Abell's flutes, I thankfully I got over the wood fever! Might check that out next couple of rounds. Meantime perhaps a Guo hj would do - but not a priority yet. Still learning my metals. A US retailer suggested to take a look at Mancke. Prefer inert low maintenance that do not need pampering.Gordon wrote:You should not and do not need to sterilize a wooden flute, no matter how old it is. Infectious bacteria/viruses are only an issue if someone sick just played it recently and handed it back to you - but that would be just as true with a silver flute. Oil the flute properly and don't worry about bacteria. Barrier oils are useful as a preventative against excess moisture. Talk to a clarinet repair person if you don't know how to oil a flute, as the main issue/complication with oil application is avoiding oil on the pads.
Now, if a wooden flute is badly stored over the years - in a cellar, the tropics, or an airtight container - you might have an issue with molds or fungi, but you'd smell or see such problems long before they harmed you. If so, have the flute properly restored (you'll probably need to, anyway, for the pads, key lubrication, etc.). But if the flute has been kept in proper playing condition, you and the flute will be just fine - certainly don't concern yourself with old bacteria!
More at issue with old wooden flutes is making sure that they have been properly re-humidified before playing them again for hours - bring them back to health slowly (fifteen minutes at a time, then half an hour, etc.). Wood that is suddenly exposed to lots of moisture too suddenly may expand unevenly and crack.
flutist with a screwdriver
Re: Antique wooden flute HYGIENE
I mostly play with old system wooden flutes, both antique and modern, some chromatically keyed, and others not, not Boehm-based systems usually made from silver. Boehm system flutes need far more regular maintenance, IMO, in terms of regular repads, lubrication and adjustments, etc., than simple system flutes, regardless of whether they're made of wood or metal. As a base material, hardwoods are pretty stable and don't need the constant pampering many imagine wooden flutes require (beyond common sense, attention to harsh and sudden environment changes, and a non-abusive owner!).
So, my original answer was largely regarding your microbe concerns. To play a system of any material requires that the instrument be in top shape - should you own/play one of Abell's modern wooden flutes, say, then strictly adhere to their recommendations for maintenance (much of which are undoubtedly the same as any quality Boehm-system flute - regular COA, etc.). If you should find yourself in possession of a quality wooden antique Boehm system, L. Lot or whomever, you'll probably want to pass it through the hands of a reputable flute repairer familiar with wooden flutes - possibly a restorer - to make sure it is in top shape for playing. After that, well... back to common sense, etc., and don't worry so much about these flutes being more delicate than modern silver flutes - they've lasted sometimes well over a hundred years already; they were made to get handled and played. You want indestructable, buy a keyless flute in Delrin!
So, my original answer was largely regarding your microbe concerns. To play a system of any material requires that the instrument be in top shape - should you own/play one of Abell's modern wooden flutes, say, then strictly adhere to their recommendations for maintenance (much of which are undoubtedly the same as any quality Boehm-system flute - regular COA, etc.). If you should find yourself in possession of a quality wooden antique Boehm system, L. Lot or whomever, you'll probably want to pass it through the hands of a reputable flute repairer familiar with wooden flutes - possibly a restorer - to make sure it is in top shape for playing. After that, well... back to common sense, etc., and don't worry so much about these flutes being more delicate than modern silver flutes - they've lasted sometimes well over a hundred years already; they were made to get handled and played. You want indestructable, buy a keyless flute in Delrin!
Re: Antique wooden flute HYGIENE
Hello Gordon. wow. Thank you for your most informative advice. Pleased to meet you. Are you into early baroque music etc? What do you mostly play with these revered instruments?Gordon wrote:I mostly play with old system wooden flutes, both antique and modern, some chromatically keyed, and others not, not Boehm-based systems usually made from silver. Boehm system flutes need far more regular maintenance, IMO, in terms of regular repads, lubrication and adjustments, etc., than simple system flutes, regardless of whether they're made of wood or metal. As a base material, hardwoods are pretty stable and don't need the constant pampering many imagine wooden flutes require (beyond common sense, attention to harsh and sudden environment changes, and a non-abusive owner!).
So, my original answer was largely regarding your microbe concerns. To play a system of any material requires that the instrument be in top shape - should you own/play one of Abell's modern wooden flutes, say, then strictly adhere to their recommendations for maintenance (much of which are undoubtedly the same as any quality Boehm-system flute - regular COA, etc.). If you should find yourself in possession of a quality wooden antique Boehm system, L. Lot or whomever, you'll probably want to pass it through the hands of a reputable flute repairer familiar with wooden flutes - possibly a restorer - to make sure it is in top shape for playing. After that, well... back to common sense, etc., and don't worry so much about these flutes being more delicate than modern silver flutes - they've lasted sometimes well over a hundred years already; they were made to get handled and played. You want indestructable, buy a keyless flute in Delrin!
Y'know what, I love the sound of wood. It's earthy, soothing, organic, harmonious (sans the microbes
) I do find the music "organic" in the sense that it invokes a sense of harmony within and around us. The closest I have to wood is my suite of Yamaha resins. ( 
yes yes yamaha. Love the Petri/Jarrett rendition of Handel's Sonatas.I stand corrected on many counts of my misconceptions before and am happy to hear otherwise.
Perhaps one day I shall have the good fortune of playing one! With less trepidation. How do you insulate your instruments? One tends to takes for granted the milder temperature fluctuations in some countries, it must be tough in the heartland where the temperature swings are very great....incidentally we hope no one at the forum is currently snowed in. 
flutist with a screwdriver
Re: Antique wooden flute HYGIENE
Although I started on a modern silver flute, I mostly play Irish traditional flute on a wooden conical flute, based on a 19th century Pratten flute, and have for about 15 years. Classical music can be (and was) played on these flutes, too - that's what they were originally intended for. These different systems overlapped, time-wise, and many disliked the modern Boehm system, then and now, although clearly the latter won. Boehm, by the way, designed his original system to be made from wood, and did not like the early metal versions of his system. I also played a Baroque boxwood one-key antique 1720 replica for a while, set at A430, but, sadly, had to let that one go.
If you're really interested in the differences of all these flute types, there's a maker in your neck of the woods (AUS) who has a very impressive website explaining the sort of flute(s) he makes and I (currently) play (although my flute is not one of his). He includes a very extensive (and exhaustive) history of 19th Century flute makers and their fingering systems, including Boehm's, whose system eventually became the standard (except for us trad types!). Interesting stuff - anyway, here's his site address: http://www.mcgee-flutes.com/ Also answers some of your questions about care, etc. I just keep my flute played in (humidified by me, with regular play), and during the winter, when the home is heated (lots of snow here!), I wrap the flute between practicing, in its case, loosely in a plastic bag. Others get more elaborate, with humidifiers and such.
I did want to add that wood, in and of itself, doesn't necessarily make for a very different sound. Classically trained players on a modern wooden orchestral flute, such as an Abell, still sound to most ears an awful lot like a classically trained player on a modern silver flute. For those that still prefer wood, or profess to hear a difference, they can buy a wooden headjoint for their silver flute and have the best of both worlds. But, really, it's the embouchure cut, IMO, makes the biggest difference, whether on a silver headjoint, or wooden one. That, and the difference between a conical bore and a cylindrical one (modern). All these issues aside, Irish-style players attain their distinctively different tone/sound through their own embouchure approach, focused deep into the chimney; there are a few ITM players who use (or used) modern silver flutes and sound, except to the most discerning listeners, as if they were on a wooden conical. What I personally love about a conical wooden flute is the direct finger-on-wood response; no typewrite mechanism to separate me from the music. That said, when I can swing a repad for my silver flute, I love playing that flute as well!
Wonder if anyone else is reading this thread?
If you're really interested in the differences of all these flute types, there's a maker in your neck of the woods (AUS) who has a very impressive website explaining the sort of flute(s) he makes and I (currently) play (although my flute is not one of his). He includes a very extensive (and exhaustive) history of 19th Century flute makers and their fingering systems, including Boehm's, whose system eventually became the standard (except for us trad types!). Interesting stuff - anyway, here's his site address: http://www.mcgee-flutes.com/ Also answers some of your questions about care, etc. I just keep my flute played in (humidified by me, with regular play), and during the winter, when the home is heated (lots of snow here!), I wrap the flute between practicing, in its case, loosely in a plastic bag. Others get more elaborate, with humidifiers and such.
I did want to add that wood, in and of itself, doesn't necessarily make for a very different sound. Classically trained players on a modern wooden orchestral flute, such as an Abell, still sound to most ears an awful lot like a classically trained player on a modern silver flute. For those that still prefer wood, or profess to hear a difference, they can buy a wooden headjoint for their silver flute and have the best of both worlds. But, really, it's the embouchure cut, IMO, makes the biggest difference, whether on a silver headjoint, or wooden one. That, and the difference between a conical bore and a cylindrical one (modern). All these issues aside, Irish-style players attain their distinctively different tone/sound through their own embouchure approach, focused deep into the chimney; there are a few ITM players who use (or used) modern silver flutes and sound, except to the most discerning listeners, as if they were on a wooden conical. What I personally love about a conical wooden flute is the direct finger-on-wood response; no typewrite mechanism to separate me from the music. That said, when I can swing a repad for my silver flute, I love playing that flute as well!
Wonder if anyone else is reading this thread?
Re: Antique wooden flute HYGIENE
Yes!
Aisling Agnew has an incredible sound with her wooden flute!
http://www.agnewmcallisterduo.com/post/ ... in-holland
Aisling Agnew has an incredible sound with her wooden flute!
http://www.agnewmcallisterduo.com/post/ ... in-holland
Re: Antique wooden flute HYGIENE
Thanks for the clip, Classitar. Here's a nice clip of a bog-standard trad session tune, Ships are Sailing, being played in, well, where else?, a pub. This is a B&S Dulcet 8-key Concert Flute (Late C19th). More like the stuff I play, in any case, and while there are many, many clips to choose from around, with better-known players on better-known flutes (Rudalls and such), I just saw this one recently and particularly liked it:. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aIZ6WMjRJs
Without any interest in the outcome, btw, that particular flute is for sale by Jem, the poster of the clip. Well, no interest other than jealousy, once it's gone...
You might notice the headjoint is lined with silver around the embouchure. The usual reason for this is that some people have allergic reactions to various wood types. So a silver band is placed around the mouthpiece. The worst offender (rarely found/used in modern wood flutes, these days, but once common) is cocus wood, which I believe is what this flute is made from. Of course, some people have reactions to silver - much rarer, I suppose. I have bad allergies, myself, but have yet to seriously react to any given wood species used for flute, FWIW...
Without any interest in the outcome, btw, that particular flute is for sale by Jem, the poster of the clip. Well, no interest other than jealousy, once it's gone...
You might notice the headjoint is lined with silver around the embouchure. The usual reason for this is that some people have allergic reactions to various wood types. So a silver band is placed around the mouthpiece. The worst offender (rarely found/used in modern wood flutes, these days, but once common) is cocus wood, which I believe is what this flute is made from. Of course, some people have reactions to silver - much rarer, I suppose. I have bad allergies, myself, but have yet to seriously react to any given wood species used for flute, FWIW...
Re: Antique wooden flute HYGIENE
Gordon wrote:Although I started on a modern silver flute, I mostly play Irish traditional flute on a wooden conical flute, based on a 19th century Pratten flute, and have for about 15 years. Classical music can be (and was) played on these flutes, too - that's what they were originally intended for. These different systems overlapped, time-wise, and many disliked the modern Boehm system, then and now, although clearly the latter won. Boehm, by the way, designed his original system to be made from wood, and did not like the early metal versions of his system. I also played a Baroque boxwood one-key antique 1720 replica for a while, set at A430, but, sadly, had to let that one go.
If you're really interested in the differences of all these flute types, there's a maker in your neck of the woods (AUS) who has a very impressive website explaining the sort of flute(s) he makes and I (currently) play (although my flute is not one of his). He includes a very extensive (and exhaustive) history of 19th Century flute makers and their fingering systems, including Boehm's, whose system eventually became the standard (except for us trad types!). Interesting stuff - anyway, here's his site address: http://www.mcgee-flutes.com/ Also answers some of your questions about care, etc. I just keep my flute played in (humidified by me, with regular play), and during the winter, when the home is heated (lots of snow here!), I wrap the flute between practicing, in its case, loosely in a plastic bag. Others get more elaborate, with humidifiers and such.Thanks! Popular bloke ... long backlog of orders (restoration and other)... interesting that you use a plastic bag - simple ingenious way to keep the humidity in? I suppose it must be ultra dry with all that snow. No need flute warmer ackets.
I did want to add that wood, in and of itself, doesn't necessarily make for a very different sound. interesting! Classically trained players on a modern wooden orchestral flute, such as an Abell, still sound to most ears an awful lot like a classically trained player on a modern silver flute. For those that still prefer wood, or profess to hear a difference, they can buy a wooden headjoint for their silver flute and have the best of both worlds. But, really, it's the embouchure cut, IMO, makes the biggest difference, whether on a silver headjoint, or wooden one. That, and the difference between a conical bore and a cylindrical one (modern). All these issues aside, Irish-style players attain their distinctively different tone/sound through their own embouchure approach aeolian effect?, focused deep into the chimney; there are a few ITM players who use (or used) modern silver flutes and sound, except to the most discerning listeners, as if they were on a wooden conical. What I personally love about a conical wooden flute is the direct finger-on-wood response; no typewrite mechanism to separate me from the music. That said, when I can swing a repad for my silver flute, I love playing that flute as well!i wish I could do that
just a thought and I know some of you would baulk at this but what do you think of GUO flutes? Seems to me the sound, weight, intonation, price and easyCare has a lot going for it. Could resins be the futureNot organic I know. Wood still retains it's romance and allure.
Wonder if anyone else is reading this thread?
flutist with a screwdriver
Re: Antique wooden flute HYGIENE
Classitar wrote:Yes!
Aisling Agnew has an incredible sound with her wooden flute!
http://www.agnewmcallisterduo.com/post/ ... in-holland
Last edited by flutego12 on Fri Mar 01, 2013 5:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
flutist with a screwdriver
Re: Antique wooden flute HYGIENE
Great stuff Gordon!