Head joints curved, vertical, swan
Moderators: Classitar, pied_piper, Phineas
Head joints curved, vertical, swan
Having back problems I've been looking into the alternate head joint possibilities. Unfortunately they are all out of my budget at present but I hate to give up playing. Anyone have a curved head lying around they're not using? Otherwise I do have a nephew who has a BS in engineering and works with metals and in a machine shop and I'm wondering what would be the possibility of taking a regular head joint and bending it somehow into a swan or vertical config.
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pied_piper
- Posts: 1962
- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 1:31 pm
- Location: Virginia
Modifying a regular headjoint is probably more work than it would be worth. It's hard to bend a silver or nickle silver tube without getting kinks or irregularities in the bend. Commercially made curved headjoints are frequently made in multiple pieces: embouchure section, curved section, and tenon section.
Take a look at http://www.usedflutes.com/. There is an Armstrong 104 flute with curved headjoint listed for sale there for $125 + $25 shipping.
p.s. I once straightened an old trumpet to make a straight herald trumpet.
Some normally curved sections were replaced with straight tubing and others like the bell section, were "unbent". Although it was still fully functional afterward, I did it to make a wall decoration - not for playing - it wasn't a quality instrument.
Take a look at http://www.usedflutes.com/. There is an Armstrong 104 flute with curved headjoint listed for sale there for $125 + $25 shipping.
p.s. I once straightened an old trumpet to make a straight herald trumpet.
Some normally curved sections were replaced with straight tubing and others like the bell section, were "unbent". Although it was still fully functional afterward, I did it to make a wall decoration - not for playing - it wasn't a quality instrument."Never give a flute player a screwdriver."
--anonymous--
--anonymous--
Have you seen the "swan" head joint? No sharp angles. May be possible to bend one like that, eh? I've researched bending metal tubes and it seems like packing it with sand and using a jig and some heat might be a possibility. How much heat would be one question and how to seal the ends of the joint to keep the sand in would be another. In the meantime I've another wild and crazy idea. Found a flute with the curved piece but missing the headpiece. What if you took an old head joint and cut it off to the right size and put that in the curved part? Maybe cork it to get a tight fit? Yes I know when you play the head joint from the reverse side it's not quite the same. But they do play that way. I've tried it. I think it would work for practice anyway and then for performance I could go back to the straight flute.
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pied_piper
- Posts: 1962
- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 1:31 pm
- Location: Virginia
I don't think that I can advise you on this. I've done some bending of brass tubing for brass instruments (1/2" and under) but I've never attempted bending anything as large as a headjoint.
If you got the curved piece, you might be able to cut another old headjoint to the right length. Headjoint tubing in tapered though, so that might present some issues with getting the joint sized correctly. If it's real close, but just slightly too loose, it can be expanded some by burnishing the joint area. If it's much smaller, a better option might be to solder a thin brass or silver sleeve over it to make up the size difference.
The embouchure (lip) plate is usually soldered on with soft (lead) solder. If you are really ambitious, you could unsolder it, turn it around, and resolder it so that it is oriented correctly.
Note: If you heat a headjoint to bend it, you will probably need to remove the embouchure plate anyway. Soft solder can burn and actually damage or eat through brass or silver if it's heated too hot.
If you got the curved piece, you might be able to cut another old headjoint to the right length. Headjoint tubing in tapered though, so that might present some issues with getting the joint sized correctly. If it's real close, but just slightly too loose, it can be expanded some by burnishing the joint area. If it's much smaller, a better option might be to solder a thin brass or silver sleeve over it to make up the size difference.
The embouchure (lip) plate is usually soldered on with soft (lead) solder. If you are really ambitious, you could unsolder it, turn it around, and resolder it so that it is oriented correctly.
Note: If you heat a headjoint to bend it, you will probably need to remove the embouchure plate anyway. Soft solder can burn and actually damage or eat through brass or silver if it's heated too hot.
"Never give a flute player a screwdriver."
--anonymous--
--anonymous--
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pied_piper
- Posts: 1962
- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 1:31 pm
- Location: Virginia
Brass generally needs to be annealed to bend it. When brass is formed into tubing, it generally gets work hardened. Annealing it allows it to bend more easily and with less likelyhood of kinking or getting accordian folds on the inner curve. To anneal brass it is heated to a soft red glow and then quenched in water.
Another problem that you may encounter with trying to bend a headjoint is that if you have a brass or nickle silver headjoint, it is plated with either silver or nickle. When you anneal and bend it, it will likely ruin the plating.
As far as tubing size is concerned, cork could be used to fashion a joint if the difference is greater than 1/16" inch. Anything less than that and the cork would be so thin that it would be very fragile. If the difference is very slight, tape might be a possibility. Also, teflon plumber's tape might be an option. When trying headjoints on different brands of flutes, the tubing size varies slightly and until they are expanded to fit, the teflon tape works temporarily.
Another problem that you may encounter with trying to bend a headjoint is that if you have a brass or nickle silver headjoint, it is plated with either silver or nickle. When you anneal and bend it, it will likely ruin the plating.
As far as tubing size is concerned, cork could be used to fashion a joint if the difference is greater than 1/16" inch. Anything less than that and the cork would be so thin that it would be very fragile. If the difference is very slight, tape might be a possibility. Also, teflon plumber's tape might be an option. When trying headjoints on different brands of flutes, the tubing size varies slightly and until they are expanded to fit, the teflon tape works temporarily.
"Never give a flute player a screwdriver."
--anonymous--
--anonymous--
The difference in diameters is a bit greater than 1/8" so sounds like cork would work. Would Micro cement be OK to use for it? I don't like to use the glues with toxic fumes.
Unsoldering and reversing a lip plate seems like a pretty touchy operation. How do you get under there and get a good seal all around when you resolder?
Unsoldering and reversing a lip plate seems like a pretty touchy operation. How do you get under there and get a good seal all around when you resolder?
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pied_piper
- Posts: 1962
- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 1:31 pm
- Location: Virginia
Micro cement is simply shellac liquified in denatured alcohol. It is sometimes used to apply cork to sax necks, so yes it would work to glue cork to the headjoint. The only problem with shellac-based glues is that it will tend to get brittle over time. I think contact cement provides a superior bond, but Micro/shellac cement was used for many years before contact cement came into common use.
There are two keys to successful soldering: both pieces must be very clean/bright for the bonding to occur and a good liquid flux is needed. The lip plate and tube must be cleaned/scraped/lightly sanded where they will be joined - smooth surfaces are essential. Don't touch the areas after preparation or the oil from your fingers can prevent a good solder job.
A liquid acid-based flux is used on the joint to cause the solder to flow easily. Before joining the two pieces together, use a cotton swab to apply a bit of the liquid flux to the areas to be soldered and then wipe off the excess - especially if any gets on the surfaces not being soldered. The acid will slightly etch the surfaces to prepare them for soldering. The lip plate is then carefully aligned and secured to the tube. This can be done using iron stovepipe wire that you can get at a hardware store. Soft solder will not stick to the iron wire and will hold the two pieces securely together while the soldering is done. Flux must be applied all around the edge of the joint. Apply it slowly and it will wick into the joint. Be sure to wipe any excess from the outside and inside the embouchure hole. Wrap a small piece of leather around the tube to protect it from scratches and clamp it gently but firmly in a vise - you don't want it to move while soldering. Heat the joint area slowly with a propane torch using a medium flame. Work the flame evenly all around the joint and tube so that it gets hot evenly. The flux will begin to boil and soon after, you can touch the end of the solder to the joint. When it is hot enough, the solder will melt and flow into the joint. You may need to apply the solder at more than one point to ensure that it flows fully into the joint. Don't apply too much solder or it may begin to flow out the embouchure hole and into the tube interior. When you are satisfied that it is soldered all around, allow it to cool naturally. When cool any residue of the burned flux can be washed and scrubbed off.
This is exactly the same process that plumbers use when soldering copper pipes. If you know a plumber, get one to show you how they do it. I'd also suggest getting some brass or copper tubing and practice on some scrap material before you attempt the headjoint. Soldering is really not super difficult, but it does take some practice and skill to get the knack of getting the heat right and not getting a lot of excess solder in places that you don't want it. Really good soldering is a bit of an art...
(By the way - solder in a well ventilated area. The fumes from the heated flux are somewhat toxic, so avoid breathing it!!!)
If some excess solder flowed on the outside of the joint or into the embouchure hole, it can be carefully removed with a very small scraper and then gently buffed/polished to remove scratches or areas dulled by contact with the solder.
There are two keys to successful soldering: both pieces must be very clean/bright for the bonding to occur and a good liquid flux is needed. The lip plate and tube must be cleaned/scraped/lightly sanded where they will be joined - smooth surfaces are essential. Don't touch the areas after preparation or the oil from your fingers can prevent a good solder job.
A liquid acid-based flux is used on the joint to cause the solder to flow easily. Before joining the two pieces together, use a cotton swab to apply a bit of the liquid flux to the areas to be soldered and then wipe off the excess - especially if any gets on the surfaces not being soldered. The acid will slightly etch the surfaces to prepare them for soldering. The lip plate is then carefully aligned and secured to the tube. This can be done using iron stovepipe wire that you can get at a hardware store. Soft solder will not stick to the iron wire and will hold the two pieces securely together while the soldering is done. Flux must be applied all around the edge of the joint. Apply it slowly and it will wick into the joint. Be sure to wipe any excess from the outside and inside the embouchure hole. Wrap a small piece of leather around the tube to protect it from scratches and clamp it gently but firmly in a vise - you don't want it to move while soldering. Heat the joint area slowly with a propane torch using a medium flame. Work the flame evenly all around the joint and tube so that it gets hot evenly. The flux will begin to boil and soon after, you can touch the end of the solder to the joint. When it is hot enough, the solder will melt and flow into the joint. You may need to apply the solder at more than one point to ensure that it flows fully into the joint. Don't apply too much solder or it may begin to flow out the embouchure hole and into the tube interior. When you are satisfied that it is soldered all around, allow it to cool naturally. When cool any residue of the burned flux can be washed and scrubbed off.
This is exactly the same process that plumbers use when soldering copper pipes. If you know a plumber, get one to show you how they do it. I'd also suggest getting some brass or copper tubing and practice on some scrap material before you attempt the headjoint. Soldering is really not super difficult, but it does take some practice and skill to get the knack of getting the heat right and not getting a lot of excess solder in places that you don't want it. Really good soldering is a bit of an art...
(By the way - solder in a well ventilated area. The fumes from the heated flux are somewhat toxic, so avoid breathing it!!!)
If some excess solder flowed on the outside of the joint or into the embouchure hole, it can be carefully removed with a very small scraper and then gently buffed/polished to remove scratches or areas dulled by contact with the solder.
"Never give a flute player a screwdriver."
--anonymous--
--anonymous--
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pied_piper
- Posts: 1962
- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 1:31 pm
- Location: Virginia
Yep. The heated flux provides a wicking action that draws the solder into all the nooks and crannies...
BTW - If you search TouTube, there are a number of videos posted there about soldering. The ones about silver were doing silver soldering (hard soldering) which is very different, so ignore those. Look for the ones about soldering brass and copper. You might find a few of them helpful.
BTW - If you search TouTube, there are a number of videos posted there about soldering. The ones about silver were doing silver soldering (hard soldering) which is very different, so ignore those. Look for the ones about soldering brass and copper. You might find a few of them helpful.
"Never give a flute player a screwdriver."
--anonymous--
--anonymous--