I want to completely start over my Embouchure.

[JasonTongRulz]

My embouchure is extremely loose and the top lip hangs out too much so my bandmaster, my two flute teachers, and myself have decided to completely start over my embouchure..

When I tongue, my top lip bounces out. My bottom lip is too far in and both lips are extremely loose. This is as a result of a few days of self-teaching and then over-practiced error. I can post a video if necessary.

Can anyone please give me any tips for starting over an Embouchure? This is really stressful? My main issue is actually getting consistency with my Embouchure.

What is really, really irritating is that when I have the basic Flute Embouchure shape, as soon as I put the Headjoint on, my embouchure returns back to the sloppy, loose embouchure I played with. This might be an automatic reaction to change to what I'm used to.. and this is extremely troublesome. No matter how many times I try getting it, as soon as the Headjoint touches my my chin my embouchure just restarts over and over again. This is getting really frustrating and I've been at it for more than 3 weeks now. Can you please help me?

[pied_piper]

Patricia George uses an analogy to help flutists form the correct embouchure: Think of spitting rice. Consciously think of the shape your lips take when trying to spit a grain of rice and do that when you put the flute to your lips. That may help you retrain your lip muscles.

[JasonTongRulz]

I found out from my Flute Teacher that I have a Tear Drop shaped lip..

We have been trying to make me start playing out of the side..

But we are not completely dropping playing it on center though.

Is there any way for me to be able to play Center, or will I only sound good to the side?

[lianeandflute]

The thing is that everyone has completely different lips, so our embouchures are always going to be very different. You have to do what works for you….
From a lot of experimentation myself, and from observing my own students and sometimes changing their embouchures, I've generally observed that a relaxed embouchure from approximately the centre of the lips, lower lip spread over/across the lip plate, corners pointing slightly down, is most effective for a clean, clear sound with a good core to it.
HOWEVER this is just my opinion, and I'm not a teacher with decades of experience and a degree and all of that, I'm an advanced student (conservatoire level, teaching about 12 students as of 2010). So just see that as someone else's opinion…

That said, Moyse had a side embouchure and so do many brilliant professionals. Think carefully, experiment and do what ends up sounding the best (and what you want to sound like) and being comfortable for you.

I had to half re-learn my embouchure by myself during christmas last year and I found that after a LOT of work on the headjoint (like you seem to be doing), doing long low register notes was a good place to start. I just took it slowly and began with low D, for example, and slowly tried to replicate the work I'd done on the headjoint. It would go back to being pretty tense quite quickly, so I stopped and went back to the beginning again. I went a few notes higher everyday, otherwise I strained my embouchure and had to start from a few steps back and then slowly get back to where I was. I had to learn to be patient.

It can be really hard and frustrating. I still get really frustrated with my embouchure because I've been in the process of changing it (gradually) for a couple of years. But try to be patient. Maybe it will be easier for you than for me!

[pied_piper]

If you Google "flute tear drop embouchure" you will find a lot of links with ways to deal with this issue.

[JasonTongRulz]

*Image removed*

This is my embouchure at the moment! Is this looking like a normal Flute embouchure? I finally got my lips to stop sagging when I put the headjoint on my lips!

[fluteguy18]

Definitely a tear drop lip shape. The shape of the embouchure looks really standard, but ultimately your problem will lie with the tear drop getting in the way. Your objective should be to obtain a symmetrical, elliptical aperture (the opening that air comes through) that doesn't have anything 'blocking' the air or causing disturbances. Because of the tear drop you will have to pull the embouchure slightly off center. The tear drop is going to cause an irregular aperture shape that will cause disturbances in the air stream (as far as I can tell).

I myself have very slight irregularities with my lips as well (I stared and prodded and poked in the mirror for over an hour one day). I have a slight teardrop (very slight) and my lips have varying thicknesses/depths. To correct that I slightly pull my upper lip to the right and my lower lip to the left. But it's VERY slight.

Trust your teacher.

[Zevang]

Completely agree with Fluteguy.
But maybe you could post a picture from a low perspective (put the camera in a low position), showing the airstream hole in your embouchure. That should make clear if the tear drop is really causing all the problems.

[JasonTongRulz]

Surprisingly, with this Embouchure I can actually get a nice tone! I can consistently produce a firm low register, and a somewhat consistent mid-register (Occasionally notes stop for a split second). I have not yet tested out my high register thoroughly yet.

My teacher said it is just a matter of getting used to my Embouchure. I will upload another picture later when I get the time!

Thank you very much!

[JasonTongRulz]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IK6mIUB-Ow

I've uploaded a video for you guys. Can you judge whether this embouchure works well for me? Will I have to play sideways?

Please excuse the fuzziness at the beginning, I wasn't quite ready..

My Mid-Range notes don't quite work for me yet as well..

Hopefully this helps!

[lianeandflute]

we all have irregularities in our lips. sometimes i look at professionals' natural lips and they are totally different to their embouchure, e.g. my flute teacher at the sydney conservatorium (she is principal flute in the aus. ballet & opera orchestra) has really symmetrical lips but when she plays her embouchure is not symmetrical, sharon bezaly has really asymmetrical lips but her embouchure is, like, perfect (from what i've seen from videos and a masterclass i saw in 2009, i was in the front row and she was about a metre away from me).

if you don't want to put the tear drop on the side, maybe you could pull it back? my teacher always talks about spreading the lips out (to avoid lips sticking out like a kiss type thing). It seems to me that your focusing on your top lip a lot, maybe try spreading your lower lip across the lip plate a bit more? The corners of your mouth look quite tight which will lead to tension and probably won't help with the tear drop issue. I dunno. What do other people think?

even if you do have to put it on the side, that's okay. a lot of professionals play extremely on the side, which i'm sure you won't have to do, and they can sound fantastic. most people have slight symmetry issues, some more noticeable than others.

and lol, the audio is totally out of sync with the image!

[Zevang]

I didn't have the opportunity to see your youtube video, willdo that at home.

There is a webpage (can't remember right now where it is, nor who created it) where there are lots os pictures of embouchures (showing only the mouth) of famous flutists. Of course there are lots of different shapes, but the remarkable idea of this page is that regardless of being so diverse, they all produce excellent tones (since they all are famous flutists...).

Does anybody knows the address? It would be nice to enrich this topic.

[fluteguy18]

Seeing the 'new embouchure' in action I think it will probably work once you get used to it. It doesn't look tight or tense. It looks like it will be extremely flexible once you get used to it. The sound has a nice core but is a bit fuzzy over all. That will change over time I think.

From the angle of the video your aperture seems really REALLY big. I would try making it a bit smaller by using the muscles that generally line up with your canine teeth. Bring them together (as if pressing your lips together to form a thin line).

[JasonTongRulz]

I am still having trouble hitting notes above the Mid Register F! They become fuzzy and/or crack really easily. Particularly the 2nd Octave Bb and Third Octave C...

What can I do to train myself to hit the 3rd Octave Notes?

Also when I try and tongue for 3rd Octave Notes the sides of my embouchure feel weird... it just doesn't feel right...

Also in our Honor Band, we're playing a piece with a passage of 32nd notes from B2, tongued all the way up to Bb3!

I can't do this with my new embouchure!

[Zevang]

I would say that it's just a matter of time for you to get accustomed to it and improve more and more your tone.
But, as it was said that you have a big embouchure hole (couldn't see it yet, sorry), so I remembered someone commented an exercise in which you put and hold a grain of rice between your lips. In fact, analysing it under a three-dimentional point of view, the shape and size of the embouchure hole should be aproximatelly the same of a grain of rice (although it depends also on the quality and brand of the rice...).
If the hole is too big, too much air is being lost and also the focus of the notes. It get's increasingly harder to play when you go up the scale. As you don't have yet the focus on your airstream, it's more difficult to change its direction.
First you need to acquire more confidence in working with your upper lip (the center portion) so you increase focus and format a smaller hole. Later you may try to change the airstream direction, the higher the note, the higher the angle of the airstream (away from the headjoint). I talking about bery subtle changes in direction that usually need some help from projecting a little bit the jaw to your front.
I don't know if I made myself clear. Feel free to question any point.