Hello~
I am an adult getting back to the flute that I played only a year and a half in school. But I am often discouragud by the following:
When I play a chromatic scale from low C up, the F sharp does not sound correct unless I play it with the 2nd finger rather than the third. It is the same in the next octave. I am working on the third octave. ( I never learned proper ombouchure etc)
Any ideas why? I have a Bundy student model flute.
That same key ( RH 2) also rises back up slowly when playing E ( RH 1 and 2 and pinky ) but at no other time as far as I know. I got it repaired once and it happened again shortly after the repair. This was years ago. I assume it was the spring. I am wondering if it is just the type of flute I have? Do ya think?
But what about the F# ? Strange!
Thanks
Kathy
Some flutes have little quirks like that F#. If you think it sounds better to use RH2, then go right ahead. What you do to get the best possible sound in a given situation doesn't matter nearly as much as the fact that you do get the best possible sound. It may also be that there is something mechanically wrong with the flute (perhaps a leak in the F# key) that makes the F# with RH3 sound funky. A teacher or other more skilled flutist might be able to tell you what they think, as over the internet it is very difficult to know what is happening. As for RH2 rising slowly, that may be a matter of spring tension, but it could just as easily be a sign that the flute needs some basic maintainance. The oil in the mechanism must be removed and replaced periodically to keep the mechanism working properly. I would advise you to take it to a repair tech for at least a COA to get it back in good condition. The type of flute really has nothing to do with it, other than the fact that it's a student instrument and might have taken some abuse in the past that would eventually cause these problems. In any case, if the flute has not been serviced since you played it back in school, it is more than time that it saw a tech, and likely he'll be able to set these problems right.
Last edited by flutepicc06 on Mon Oct 30, 2006 10:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I just looked in the mirror and realized that the key above F ( RH1) was not going down properly when I played F sharp with RH 3 and pinky.
But in general, what is a good inexpensive flute for a hobby? Is it worth keeping this student model Bundy do you thinK? I'm getting really discouraged. I wonder if my music store would do a trade in.
Kathy
That would be why it sounds funky, and that can be fixed very easily by a competent tech. If your flute is not in good condition, there are bound to be problems like this that will discourage you. For a relatively small investment, this flute can be put back in great playing order for you, and should continue to serve you well for many years. There are better quality instruments available, but if you're just playing for your own enjoyment, or in a non professional setting, you really don't *need* to shell out for one of these. Keep in mind that even if you buy a flute new, it will most likely need a visit to a tech to be set up properly. If you really want to go down the new flute road, check out Yamahas, Trevor James, Jupiter, Gemeinhardt, Emerson, and Pearl flutes.
Kathryn777 wrote:Hi
Thanks for the quick reply. I posted my second message before seeing it!
What is COA?
COA stands for Clean, Oil, and Adjust. It is basic maintainance that should be carried out on a yearly (for most people...my flutes are worked on roughly every 6-8 months) basis to keep the flute in the best possible playing condition. It basically involves taking the flute apart, cleaning it, removing the old oil, replacing it with new oil, putting it back together, and making sure that the keys work together as they should. Depending on the tech, it may also involve some basic pad work, or other little "extras."
Thanks! Wow, I didn't even know a flute had oil!
I will definitely look into it. I just bought a few flute books. The Complete Flute Playec by John Sands and a 2 books of Celtic songs with CD's for later attempts.
That was before I noticed people talking about Wye at this list.
Kathryn777 wrote:Thanks! Wow, I didn't even know a flute had oil!
I will definitely look into it. I just bought a few flute books. The Complete Flute Playec by John Sands and a 2 books of Celtic songs with CD's for later attempts.
That was before I noticed people talking about Wye at this list.
Yup...Just like any machine with moving parts, friction builds up and the mechanism must be oiled to allow smooth movement and prevent binding. Over time, it tends to set up or evaporate, though, so it must be replaced regularly. The Wye books are terrific, and would be great to have in addition to the others.
Kathryn777 wrote:Thanks! Wow, I didn't even know a flute had oil!
I will definitely look into it. I just bought a few flute books. The Complete Flute Playec by John Sands and a 2 books of Celtic songs with CD's for later attempts.
That was before I noticed people talking about Wye at this list.
Yup...Just like any machine with moving parts, friction builds up and the mechanism must be oiled to allow smooth movement and prevent binding. Over time, it tends to set up or evaporate, though, so it must be replaced regularly. The Wye books are terrific, and would be great to have in addition to the others.
Yeah, the Wye books are terrific. And yeah, the oil does seem to go bad after a while. I had a friend whose trill keys had the same slow movement problem. so, I started oiling them, just thinking that they had gotten dry (very old flute, but in good working order), and as I oiled it, black ooze came out of the other end. Very nasty. So, I had to tell him that I couldnt fix it (get all the ooze out) because I havent been trained on how to unpin the mechanism. So, yeah, the oil probably just evaporated or set up like bad jello.
Kathryn777 wrote:Thanks! Wow, I didn't even know a flute had oil!
I will definitely look into it. I just bought a few flute books. The Complete Flute Playec by John Sands and a 2 books of Celtic songs with CD's for later attempts.
That was before I noticed people talking about Wye at this list.
Yup...Just like any machine with moving parts, friction builds up and the mechanism must be oiled to allow smooth movement and prevent binding. Over time, it tends to set up or evaporate, though, so it must be replaced regularly. The Wye books are terrific, and would be great to have in addition to the others.
Yeah, the Wye books are terrific. And yeah, the oil does seem to go bad after a while. I had a friend whose trill keys had the same slow movement problem. so, I started oiling them, just thinking that they had gotten dry (very old flute, but in good working order), and as I oiled it, black ooze came out of the other end. Very nasty. So, I had to tell him that I couldnt fix it (get all the ooze out) because I havent been trained on how to unpin the mechanism. So, yeah, the oil probably just evaporated or set up like bad jello.
How were you oiling that flute without unpinning it? Proper procedure is to disassemble it (including unpinning), clean off any old oil that might remain (denatured alcohol does a good job), and then sparingly apply new oil to the steels before reassemly. You really couldn't do a very good job of that without unpinning the mech, and in any case, if there was enough oil involved for it to run out the end of the trill rod, that was far too much. 3 or 4 drops usually suffices.
the way I did it involved having to remove the trill keys/rod assembly in one piece. When I took it off, and moved it (they just spin around and around) I thought perhaps just a drop of oil or two would lubricate the ends (it seemed that it was stuck at the ends where the screws insert into the rod and not inside to where I would need to unpin the thing). Well, I put a drop or two on, and worked the keys a little to help the oil get in, and low and behold, a little black stuff started oozing out at the seams on the rod near the pins.
So, I wiped it off, put the keys back on, and told him to take it done by someone who knows how to unpin the mech because I couldnt do it.
So basically, I just took the keys off (the trill keys come off in one set, and you can't take them apart without unpinning them) and put a little oil where I thought it needed it ( up by the key with the pad, near the entrance where the screw inserts from the post). I didnt use hardly any oil at all actually and it really surprised me that thick oozy stuff came out about an inch away at the "seam".
I know...... it seems unconventional..... taking off keys and doing very MINOR work yourself (adjusting a screw, putting a spring back in temporarily until I can get to a tech) ........ but it has worked wonders many a time and saved me a lot of money. and I know that most people would absolutely die if they thought about doing this (removing their keys to fix a really easy problem), but really I think that everyone should learn how to do very basic repair. Here, in my studio, I am the only who isnt afraid to get a screwdriver anywhere near their flute. So, in January, when we go to the local flute society's fair, I am going to make them all go to the workshop on flute repair.
Oh, I agree about understanding some basic repair. I've actually learned a good bit from Jon Landell myself, and it is incredibly useful. I just didn't understand how you were managing to oil the trill rods without unpinning them, because as you said, they come off in one large section, and the pins must be removed (which incidentally isn't very difficult, but can be scary the first few times) to disassemble them further.
See, it seemed that just the section by the opening at the end was sticky. So I was trying to fix the problem without having to say "sorry, but you need a tech". It seemed simple, but in actuality, it was more than I could handle.
I would like to learn how to unpin the mech though...... I will probably try to learn a few things at the upcoming fair here in a few months beyond the usual: if you unscrew this.... this comes off sort of deal.
fluteguy18 wrote:See, it seemed that just the section by the opening at the end was sticky. So I was trying to fix the problem without having to say "sorry, but you need a tech". It seemed simple, but in actuality, it was more than I could handle.
I would like to learn how to unpin the mech though...... I will probably try to learn a few things at the upcoming fair here in a few months beyond the usual: if you unscrew this.... this comes off sort of deal.
Most likely you will. Unpinning the mech isn't difficult at all provided you have a pin driver (which Landell and other sources sell). It simply involved lining the pin up in the driver, and puounding it out with a hammer. Lining it up and keeping the pin where you want it are the hardest parts, because if you screw up, you end up punching a hole through part of the rod, which is not something you would really want to do anyway, but could also end up allowing the pin to come lose, ending with the mech literally falling apart.
You won' t really need a tech to fix the third finger F#, just a small screwdriver. There is a very small screw (on my Yamaha anyway) facing toward the player, beneath the rods that pass by the second finger F#. Very small. First, observe the orientation of the screw head slot and remember that is where it was when you started adjusting. You will need to turn it clockwise to make the F# padclose (one pad left of the F finger/pad), but turn just a fraction of a turn at a time, so as not to over do it, then try it till it is right. To see which pad I am writing about, press the F# key, then the D key and not the same pad lowers. Another maybe better way is to hold down the third finger F# (which, of course, is D) and watch the F# pad (not finger position) lower to the tone hole. I am sure it is currently not closing. Screw it it closes, but don't overtighten, as that will cause the D not to close. There is a similar screw for the second finger F# that will occasionally get out of adjustment too. Trial and error is the way to get it right. There are several such screws on flutes that can get out of adjustment. Putting a small screwdriver in your case is a good idea if it happens often. Ask me again if that doesn't do the job.
