A little help...

[FltnPicc_David]

Two weeks ago i went to the Florida Flute Association's Flute Fair and tried out a ton of flutes and took home many brochures and my private teacher and I compared brands and flutes and eliminated some....here is the chart:

INITIAL LIST:
Azumi 3000RBSO
(Britannia Silver (.958) handcut “Z” cut Altus headjoint, Britannia silver body and footjoint, silver plated keys, french or open hole, offset G, SP-1 springs, B footjoint.)

Gemeinhardt KGM Standard O/S
(Sterling silver headjoint, body and footjoint, silver plated mechanism, French or open hole, offset G, B footjoint, handcut “H1” thin-wall headjoint with gold plated lip plate, pointed key arms, 12K white gold springs, rose gold riser, Millennium logo engraved on barrel)

Muramatsu EXBOE
(Sterling silver handcut headjoint, silver plated body and footjoint, french or open hole, white gold springs, pointed key arms, drawn tone holes, offset G, split E mechanism, B footjoint)

Powell Signature B
(All sterling silver, French or open hole, inline or offset G, B footjoint, pointed key arms, 10K gold springs, drawn tone holes, G disk, handcut Signature headjoint, Straubinger pads)

Sonare 6000 Series
(Sterling silver handcut Powell Signature headjoint, sterling silver body and foot, offset G, open hole, B footjoint, white gold springs)

Trevor James Cantabile
("Cantabile" model: Sterling silver headjoint, silver plated body and foot, french or open hole, offset G, B footjoint, split E mechanism
ADD-ONS: C# trill)

Yamaha 574H
(Sterling silver handcut EC headjoint, silver plated body, footjoint and keys, French or open hole, offset G, split E mechanism, B footjoint, pointed key arms, drawn tone holes, white gold springs)

Yamaha 674H
( Sterling silver handcut EC headjoint, sterling silver body and footjoint, silver plated keys, French or open hole, offset G, split E mechanism, B footjoint, pointed key arms, drawn tone holes, white gold springs )


So we eliminated the Azumi and Sonare.......now can YOU please forward in your opinions about some of the models left, haha....I have tried these extensively and will continue to do so with your help. Thanks!

[fluteguy18]

Two weeks ago i went to the Florida Flute Association's Flute Fair and tried out a ton of flutes and took home many brochures and my private teacher and I compared brands and flutes and eliminated some....here is the chart:

INITIAL LIST:
Azumi 3000RBSO
(Britannia Silver (.958) handcut “Z” cut Altus headjoint, Britannia silver body and footjoint, silver plated keys, french or open hole, offset G, SP-1 springs, B footjoint.)

Gemeinhardt KGM Standard O/S
(Sterling silver headjoint, body and footjoint, silver plated mechanism, French or open hole, offset G, B footjoint, handcut “H1” thin-wall headjoint with gold plated lip plate, pointed key arms, 12K white gold springs, rose gold riser, Millennium logo engraved on barrel)

Muramatsu EXBOE
(Sterling silver handcut headjoint, silver plated body and footjoint, french or open hole, white gold springs, pointed key arms, drawn tone holes, offset G, split E mechanism, B footjoint)

Powell Signature B
(All sterling silver, French or open hole, inline or offset G, B footjoint, pointed key arms, 10K gold springs, drawn tone holes, G disk, handcut Signature headjoint, Straubinger pads)

Sonare 6000 Series
(Sterling silver handcut Powell Signature headjoint, sterling silver body and foot, offset G, open hole, B footjoint, white gold springs)

Trevor James Cantabile
("Cantabile" model: Sterling silver headjoint, silver plated body and foot, french or open hole, offset G, B footjoint, split E mechanism
ADD-ONS: C# trill)

Yamaha 574H
(Sterling silver handcut EC headjoint, silver plated body, footjoint and keys, French or open hole, offset G, split E mechanism, B footjoint, pointed key arms, drawn tone holes, white gold springs)

Yamaha 674H
( Sterling silver handcut EC headjoint, sterling silver body and footjoint, silver plated keys, French or open hole, offset G, split E mechanism, B footjoint, pointed key arms, drawn tone holes, white gold springs )


So we eliminated the Azumi and Sonare.......now can YOU please forward in your opinions about some of the models left, haha....I have tried these extensively and will continue to do so with your help. Thanks!

Okay... so you cut the Azumi and the Sonare....

Well, I will just tell you my personal opinions of the companies mentioned, and will let you take my words with a heaping spoonful of salt because we are different players.

The Gemeinhardt: I personally have found Gemmys to be restricting and counterproductive to a solid tone. People [that I have noticed] have developed slightly airy tendancies that are associated with the cuts in Gemeinhardt headjoints.... but again.... My OPINION not fact.

The Muramatsu: I really like Muras. This model in particular is quite nice. It is a lot like my new Miyazawa [sterling head, nickle silver body foot and keys etc. etc.] however, I personally like the mixture of these two silver alloys [with a gold riser] and I found that perfect sound in Miyazawa. Muramatsu I found quite similiar but with a different feel to it. So, I most definately recommend the Muramatsu, because of construction quality, and that it typically has a great sound.

Powell: Powells I have found to be nice, but not my cup of tea. They feel too traditional to me [but yet I like a lot of extended techniques, so what I look for in a flute is to be able to replicate the traditional 'flute' sound but also be able to create something COMPLETELY new]. So, for me, I didnt like Powell too much. But, it is still a very good company, and thousands of flutists love powell.

Trevor James: With this company, I have found you either love them, or hate them. I personally like the feel of their flutes, but not their sound. For me, I found them too restrictive. But, this company does wonders for some players, so I definately say that they produce decent instruments.

Yamaha: Both of these flutes are nice. I like both of them a lot. The only reason I didnt get a Yamaha flute was because they refused to put a C# trill key on a 700 series flute [they only put them on 800+ series flutes]. Great sound, and well made.

As for the specific instruments that I would look at the closest, I would give Muramatsu and the Yamahas the most consideration. I have found these companies to be the most reliable, and capable of producing the nicest sound and response. However, they are both really different as well. James Galway likes Muramatsu, but wont touch a Yamaha [it was on his webpage as a joke at some point] and yet Julius Baker played a Yamaha [or at least that is what Yamaha says in their brochure]. So, these companies are definately companies of serious quality. Either of these companies I think are great. Powell is good as well if that flute is more of your style, but they just didnt work for me.

Keep in mind, this is just my expieriance, and my impressions of these companies/ flutes. Please DO NOT take these as fact because they are only opinion. I just gave my thoughts on each company. Either way, I personally dont think you will be dissatisfied if you get a Mura, Yamaha, or a Powell. All three great flutes, but very different in style.

I hope this helps. If you need anything else, message me! I can definately be of assistance if you need me to [having just finished the process of buying a new flute last week].

Also, keep in mind handcraftsmanship, and everything in the FAQ thread we compiled on here. Just remember that you are the one who is buying the flute, and will be playing it. Just buy the one that will make you the happiest.

[fluttiegurl]

These are all good flutes. The only one that I would be cautious of is the Gemeinhardt. The ones that I have come across have had mechanical issues after about 6 months of heavy playing. I have seen this several times and when I contacted the company, they acted as if they never heard of these problems (even though I reported the problems to them every time). They were gracious engough that on 2 occasions, they sent students brand new flutes to replaced the defective ones, but I was not that impressed with the progress of either of these students in the way of sound quality. One has since switched to a different flute, the other is holding for a handmade.

I have been greatly impressed with thge Trevor James flutes as of late. I think I like the feel better than the sound though for my self. I only have one student who has been brave enough to try the newbie, but she sounds great on it and so far, no issues whatsoever.

The Powell and the Yamahas are definately an acquired taste for some. I did not like the design of the new upper level Yamahas, but I have a student who sounds amazing on a 584 (inline version of the 574). I personally like the Powells, minus a few things, but with all flutes, everyone is different and I know many who do not like them at all. I also do not personally like Straubringer pads, but that is another story for another post.

As for long term use, the Yamaha and Powell seem to hold up very well and hold their value over time, as does the Muramatsus. Gemeinhardt and Trevor James do not hold value if you are considerin that aspect, and I have yet to see the long term playability of the Trevor James as these are new to my studio.

If I had to choose one of these for my personal use, it would be the Muramatsu hands down, but everyone is different.

Try to get your favs on trial so that you can play them in your element for a few days. I have had the lovely experience of buying a flute (before I knew better) after only having tried it out for a few hours in the store. Once I got it home, I was extremely disappointed with the sound. Play it in ensembles and definately have someone listen to you play.

[ookwormbay7]

I seem to be making relatively the same step-up as you. We have been comparing for a while, and while I'm no expert, I can tell you some of what I've heard.

First, I jumped when I saw that specific Gemeinhardt on your list, on fluteworld.com, on sale for $1500 instead of $3000. However, I discussed with some people who told me that they weren't happy with their Gemeinhardts even if this one is on sale. My teacher completely erased them from our list, saying that we wouldn't bother with them.

I also was looking at one of the yamahas in the 600 range (one with no e mechanism, because my teacher thinks that they often do more bad than help), and it is one of the ones we are going to go try. I've heard that a lot of people seem to have yamaha's these days. However, The girl who sits next to me has a yamaha, and it is constantly sharp. Considering that my dad's 30 year old armstrong I've been using is very flat, it creates really bad dissonance. (and I know it's not just me, because I've been playing picc more often these days)

Azumi is actually one of the other one's I'm considering, though. I know you dropped it, but while the fact that Britannia silver is more pure than regular sterling should do something well for the tone. Of course, it seems to me that the companies that make these smaller divisions of flutes that are cheaper with nicer headjoints (Altus' Azumi, Haynes' Amadeus, Powell's Sonare, Jupiter's diMedici, etc) should all be in good quality. My teacher particularly likes the Amadeus, but that's not on your list, so I won't bother you with that.

I haven't looked at any Trevor James or Muramatsu, but since those are not fully silver, I think it would have to be a considerably better price/tone if you wanted to get them. I mean...you're buying a beautiful new nice wonderful flute (lalala!)...might as well get a fully silver one if they are the same price as some of the plated ones...

*looks at the list again* I would probably not try the Powell if I were you: From what I hear, the Straubinger pads they have are very much a love 'em/hate 'em thing...unless you can actually try one again, I wouldn't take the chance.

I've been using fluteworld.com--in case you don't know, their prices are very good, and if you use a credit card, they will send you 4 flutes at a time for you to try, and then you could send them all back and get some more or send them all back except the one you choose, with no extra cost. You just have to call and talk to them. Their prices generally seem to be lower than they say on the website, and they're sending a few to us tomorrow afternoon. Only thing is, I really like the look of the pointed arm keys, but out of the 4 we are allowed to get at a time which we selected (1 yamaha, 1 amadeus, 1 azumi, and 1 dimedici) only one of them has the pointed arms...

Of course, tone matters more than little things like that...but...

[flutepicc06]

I also was looking at one of the yamahas in the 600 range (one with no e mechanism, because my teacher thinks that they often do more bad than help), and it is one of the ones we are going to go try. I've heard that a lot of people seem to have yamaha's these days. However, The girl who sits next to me has a yamaha, and it is constantly sharp. Considering that my dad's 30 year old armstrong I've been using is very flat, it creates really bad dissonance. (and I know it's not just me, because I've been playing picc more often these days)

How well in tune it plays is mostly reliant on the player. Assuming it is not built on an abnormally high scale (such as A-444 or higher), that sharpness is coming from the player, not the flute. Same goes for the Armstrong playing flat.

Azumi is actually one of the other one's I'm considering, though. I know you dropped it, but while the fact that Britannia silver is more pure than regular sterling should do something well for the tone.

The amount of silver has very little to do with the tone. That is a function of the quality of manufacture, and the geometry of the headjoint. You can find plenty of poorly built solid silver heads, and some amazing silver plated ones.

I haven't looked at any Trevor James or Muramatsu, but since those are not fully silver, I think it would have to be a considerably better price/tone if you wanted to get them. I mean...you're buying a beautiful new nice wonderful flute (lalala!)...might as well get a fully silver one if they are the same price as some of the plated ones...

That would only make sense if the solid silver flutes played at the same level or better for a given player. Personally, I regard Muras to be much nicer instruments than most available in this price range. As I said above, material makes very little difference, and should not be the primary concern when flute shopping.

[ookwormbay7]

Same goes for the Armstrong playing flat.

I would note, 30-year-old armstrong.
Well thanks for correcting my ignorance

[flutepicc06]

Same goes for the Armstrong playing flat.

I would note, 30-year-old armstrong.
Well thanks for correcting my ignorance

The scale may be slightly off (which means some notes will need more adjustment than others), but the pitch average (it has hovered somewhere around A-440 to A-446 depending on location) has not changed enough in the last 30 years that it becomes impossible to play a flute at pitch. There are still many people playing on vintage flutes (some much older than this), and with the proper adjustment and flexibility, you can play them at whatever pitch level you want. Flute is, after all, a remarkably flexible instrument when it comes to pitch.

[fluttiegurl]

ookwormbay7,

I should also note here that the Muramatsu is a handmade flute, while the flutes on your trial list are not. That often makes a considerale difference in flutes due to the extra workmanship involved = quality. I do not try to push any specific flute, but the Muramatsu is definately a flute worth looking at.

[ookwormbay7]

ookwormbay7,

I should also note here that the Muramatsu is a handmade flute, while the flutes on your trial list are not. That often makes a considerale difference in flutes due to the extra workmanship involved = quality. I do not try to push any specific flute, but the Muramatsu is definately a flute worth looking at.

*goes and looks it up*

oooohhhhhhh.... those are more than my parents are planning to pay for...but they're sooooo beautiful...*pouts*

[fluteguy18]

ookwormbay7,

I should also note here that the Muramatsu is a handmade flute, while the flutes on your trial list are not. That often makes a considerale difference in flutes due to the extra workmanship involved = quality. I do not try to push any specific flute, but the Muramatsu is definately a flute worth looking at.

*goes and looks it up*

oooohhhhhhh.... those are more than my parents are planning to pay for...but they're sooooo beautiful...*pouts*

Dont be discouraged. You could probably find a used Muramatsu EX in your price range, if you decide that you really want a muramatsu. I would just make sure that it is in good condition first.

[fluttiegurl]

The EX models are in pretty much the same price range as the 600 series Yamahas, or at least they were at one time. I have not checked in a while. Fluteworld, though they are amazing with service, is not necessarily the cheapest place to shop. Also keep in mind that the price on the web does not always reflect theactual price. You are much better off to call.

As for used Muramatsus, like fluteguy18 said, be sure to have them checked out by a trained flute tech (not your typical music store band repair person). Used Muramatsus of all levels are not exactly plentiful, but they are not hard to find either.

BTW: I like the Amadeus flutes a lot. Good move for Haynes! I have recommend them to a few students who decided on other flutes, but am holding out to see what long term use will do before going all out.

[avins]

I have been playing for just a short while so cannot offer much objective info , but before getting my present Mura EX , I did quite an extensive research on the web as well as discussing this issue with other musicians
and a very well respected flute technician, so ,at least from a technical aspect the EX won hands down ,
The technician, said that the EX is mechanically a perfect instrument and you know what , you feel it in your hands, The mechanism works like a silk, very quite, and no wiggling , I've read somehwere of the Muramatsu's "Secret Technology" advantage of multilayer, or dual layer silver clad on body and mechanism in improving the sound. I dont know if that what really gives it the beautiful potential tone production or not , at least I can say that it does help a lot in the finger feel and tactability -. I tried out various other flutes , such as the TJ Cantabile , Powell Signature , but the only other make which I thought came close to the EX was the Yamaha 674 ,-which is quite nice , but somehow the sound was more , how shall I say , kind of hollow vz the EX , I hear many people say that the Yamaha is especially very good for beginners as it's quite "user friendly" as far as production of sound is concerned. I think it's quite true , though for me, at least, it was really easy at producing tones in the 1st and second register , but no advantage going into the 3rd register, its a good instrument , anyway, but I must say the EX produces beautiful warm and round sound and feels very nice in the hand , really worth every $
As for full silver body vz silver clad , I asked this question to many people and the answer was that generally in this price/quality range , there is no noticeable difference , the difference , or the advantage can really be discenable at the higher price / quality flute with heavier walled flutes.
Just my 2c ..

[MeLizzard]

Though two flutes' prices may be similar, they may have nothing else in common. With machine-made flutes, you're paying for materials (solid silver), versus paying for design and craftsmanship with the handmade flutes. There's almost no contest, but you have to buy the best flute for you, relative to the cost. I'd probably almost always choose a silver-plated handmade instrument over a solid, machined one, any day, all factors considered. With instruments of such high quality, there's no issue of durability, unless your skin is very acidic, and harsh to silver-plate. I would likely not encourage a less-serious student to spend megabucks (over $2000) on an intermediate flute purchase, but if you're playing well and hope to be seriously competitive, a little more money may be worth it in the long run, through high school and even college. The last of my students to buy an EX paid around $2700, but it sounds glorious, and she's very serious about a flute-playing career. The most recent new flute purchased by one of my students was a heavy-wall Yamaha 684, just before Christmas. She sounds great on it, doesn't intend to be a music major, and paid about $2200. Hey, at least we have choices now!