Flute pieces with piano feeling

Serpentine · Post by **Serpentine** » Sun Jun 03, 2007 6:59 am

Right, at the moment, I am having a fascination with Grieg's Piano concerto in A minor and Prokofiev's Piano sonata in Bb major. Does anyone know of any pieces that are in a simmilar style or of a simmilar feeling?
(I have already got the Chaminade and Prokoffiev flute concertino and sonata.
Slightly odd question i know! And before anyone says "take up the piano," NO! Just NO!

Thanks
Tom

fluteguy18 · Post by **fluteguy18** » Sun Jun 03, 2007 9:37 am

JS Bach Sonatas [particularly the Sonata in Eb]
JS Bach's Partita in A minor.

A lot of Bach is very reminiscent of a piano or organ. This is most likely due to the fact that his pieces were composed on the organ, and then he transcribed them for different instruments.

So, if you look at the Eb Sonata, in several instances, you have a melody, then it jumps down to a low note, and then it will jump around a lot. This is to be representational of the countermelody, and if played correctly, and in a lively acoustical environment, you can hear the notes overlap [as they echo], and you can hear the chords. There are also places where the music is written as two separate voices, and they do a sort of call and reply to each other.

sidekicker · Post by **sidekicker** » Mon Jun 04, 2007 5:55 am

fluteguy18 wrote:JS Bach Sonatas [particularly the Sonata in Eb]
JS Bach's Partita in A minor.

The Bach Partita is for unaccompanied flute, so I'm not sure this is the type of piece the poster is looking for. Maybe I've misunderstood something.

In any case, I'm sure others here will disagree, but I don't really see the stylistic similarity between the Chaminade Concertino and Prokofiev Sonata that you appear to be looking for in other pieces. Chaminade composed in a style very typical of all of the others whose works appear in Flute Music by French Composers (Ed., L. Moyse). So if you enjoy her music, also get that collection; it's a staple for flutists anyway. You might also check out the Franck Sonata, Muczynski Sonata, Copland Duo, and Burton Sonatina -- all of which have wonderful interplay between the flute and piano.

fluteguy18 wrote:A lot of Bach is very reminiscent of a piano or organ. This is most likely due to the fact that his pieces were composed on the organ, and then he transcribed them for different instruments.

Maybe I've misunderstood your point here, but I'm not sure this is accurate. I've never heard before that J.S. Bach composed all of his music for the organ first before transcribing it for other instruments. He was one of the most gifted composers in history, and certainly would not need that type of crutch. Also, there would likely have been no time or resources to have composed that way. Bach was a very prolific composer, who often had to produce full cantatas for choir and orchestra (or organ) within a week or two. Manuscript paper was also very expensive such that composing a piece for organ first, then transcribing it for other instruments would probably have been cost prohibitive at that time (not to mention possibly having to pay copyists, etc.). He may have composed a few pieces this way or -- more likely -- reworked something already composed for organ into a version for other instruments. But I seriously doubt it was anything near a standard practice to compose first for the organ and then use that to develop his intended piece.

With regard to the Eb Sonata: many music scholars now doubt its authenticity as a J.S. Bach work and attribute it to one of his sons (either C.P.E. or J.C. Bach). In fact, the much downgraded contrapuntal nature of this sonata is one of the major reasons some (including myself) do not believe he composed it; the keyboard part -- although beautiful -- has a more "accompanying" style (as opposed to counterpoint lines in both the right and left hands) than the other sonatas we can be sure of as J.S. Bach works. While the right hand lines are involved and often have melodic interplay with the soloist, the left hand has little role beyond moving the harmonic progressions. However, it is traditionally known as a J.S. Bach composition, and probably always will be, because it appears we will never know for sure. There are good arguments on both sides.

SK

fluteguy18 · Post by **fluteguy18** » Mon Jun 04, 2007 12:16 pm

It was probably a misunderstanding on my part. I interpretted it as a piece that sounded 'piano like' in nature and not neccessarily pieces of a similiar style as those mentioned. So, my thought process jumped immediately to pieces that were written for flute [not neccessarily with accomp.] that are reminiscent of a piano in the terms that there compound melodies going on.

My apologies.

I will make sure to take more care in not misunderstanding posters in the future. [I guess thorough skimming wont cut it

]

Sorry!

And the Bach organ thing. That was a slight misunderstanding. I meant that he wrote it on the organ, but not for the organ and then transcribed for something else. Does that make any sense? However, because I was not alive then, and have yet to study Bach in depth, my information may not be entirely correct. But, what I learned, was that quite a few of his pieces came from improvisations at the organ. This may or may not be true.

:::bangs head on table wishing he had ignored this thread to avoid looking stupid:::

musical_Kat · Post by **musical_Kat** » Mon Jun 04, 2007 2:27 pm

fluteguy18 wrote:

:::bangs head on table wishing he had ignored this thread to avoid looking stupid:::

Don't worry...you don't look stupid. I really do think that he meant he wanted peices that sounded like piano peices...not something with a good accomaniment!

sidekicker · Post by **sidekicker** » Mon Jun 04, 2007 3:28 pm

fluteguy18 wrote: :::bangs head on table wishing he had ignored this thread to avoid looking stupid:::

Please don't feel that way; there is absolutely no reason to. I'm sure you can find much, much, dumber things that I've written on this board

. And I -- as have others -- have misinterpreted posts. You are certainly not alone in that, if that's even what happened here.

We all learn through conversation. I'm glad you responded. And I apologize if I made you feel bad going off on my Bach tangent. It wasn't intended.

Maybe our original poster can show back up and clarify what he's asking so we'll know what type of recommendations to make. You may very well have been correct. At least one other person on the board (M_Kat) seems to agree with you. So I could be the one in error.

SK

fluteguy18 · Post by **fluteguy18** » Mon Jun 04, 2007 8:24 pm

I know, I know. Sometimes I get too hard on myself [the perfectionist in me gets carried away sometimes....

].

sidekicker · Post by **sidekicker** » Tue Jun 05, 2007 5:24 am

fluteguy18 wrote:I know, I know. Sometimes I get too hard on myself [the perfectionist in me gets carried away sometimes.... ].

That's very understandable. Unfortunately, you are embarking on a journey into a world that requires too much of that, IMO. I really wish the music world could relax its competitive nature significantly. But so many people want to be in the field that sometimes brutally harsh competition forces us to believe we have to be absolutely perfect in all things; failure is never an option. That's probably never going to change, so the answer is to look for ways to deal with it productively. When there happens to be a failure somewhere, look at it closely to examine what went wrong and why; then find a strategy that will prevent the same error in the future.

Most importantly, though, keep this in mind: you may have been the correct one here. So stop kicking yourself

.

SK

Serpentine · Post by **Serpentine** » Tue Jun 05, 2007 11:07 am

Thanks Guys for the idea's, I probably didn't really make what i wanted clear, but I don't really know what I want! Thanks for the sugestions tho. sorry to cause embarrasment.

Cheers,
Tom

MonikaFL · Post by **MonikaFL** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 9:26 am

Tom, for great flute pieces with amazing piano parts, my favorites are:

- the Liebermann Sonata
- the Burton Sonatina
- Schumann's Introduction and Variations On A Theme From "Die Schone Mullerin" (the piano and flute take turns being the "soloist" in the variations... odd variations is one, even variations the other)

... and there's always the Franck and the Fauré Sonatas... transcribed from the violin sonatas but performed often on flute, too... GORGEOUS piano writing, though

I'll probably think of a bunch more as soon as I log off... LOL

kodalyflutist · Post by **kodalyflutist** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 9:28 pm

MonikaFL wrote: "Tom, for great flute pieces with amazing piano parts, my favorites are: - Schumann's Introduction and Variations On A Theme From "Die Schone Mullerin" ...

This piece is by Schubert.

MonikaFL · Post by **MonikaFL** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 11:12 pm

haha that's what I get for playing Schumann all day on piano today! LOL thanks for that correction (and hi there!)

Hoshi_Flute · Post by **Hoshi_Flute** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 1:07 am

easy typo to make

the Die Schon Mullerin/Trockne Blumen variations are a great suggestion, love that work

fluteguy18 · Post by **fluteguy18** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 10:00 am

Hoshi_Flute wrote:easy typo to make the Die Schon Mullerin/Trockne Blumen variations are a great suggestion, love that work

Welcome to the board!

Hoshi_Flute · Post by **Hoshi_Flute** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 12:30 pm

thank you!