Finger Positions, First Two Registers, large bore PVC flute

[Jaded]

NOTE: The fingering at the bottom is only suggested as a possibility for a large bore flute with a length that is fairly short relative to its inner diameter. (In this case, about 14.5 inches (from embouchure hole end to end of flute) with 3/4 inch diameter, or a ratio of roughly 19 to 1 .)

There are probably other factors, such as the size of your embouchure hole and finger holes, but the specific impact of such effects is not explored here. Higher length to inner diameter ratio flutes (for example, 11 3/4 " from embouchure hole end to far end of flute with 1/2 " diameter, for a length to diameter ratio of 24 to 1) were observed to not require modified fingering to reach the top of the second register by the same player. This is believed to be the result of increased back pressure with the longer tube and narrower bore.

Had a flute lesson tonight at a local music store. Nice fellow. He has an embouchure. (I was observed not to.... I've been told to sing long tones as I drive the car to build my diaphragm muscles up. Now I just need a Pavorotti CD to drown myself out. What sounds I was making! Arggh!)

He experimented with the flute and some alternate finger positions near the top and got some higher notes in the second register out of it. He advised me to go home and work on alternate finger positions for the second register.

I did so, based on my theory that back pressure was not sufficient to drive the higher register notes. I blocked the lower scale air holes to marginally increase back pressure.

The following finger positions seem to offer consistency. (Embouchure and direction of air flow is absolutely critical at the top of the second register with these flutes, moreso than anywhere lower in the scale.) I offer them here in case anyone else Googles "alternate fingering simple system flute PVC flute or simple system flute alternate fingering or alternate finger positions simple system flute". These don't come with any guarantee, and may not be suitable for playing with a group of musicians, so use your own judgement.


This is a G major flute, so, with X = closed and O = Open:

IN BASE REGISTER: IN SECOND REGISTER

G BASE X X X X X X SECOND O X X X X X

A BASE X X X X X O SECOND X X X X X O

B BASE X X X X O O SECOND X X X X O O

C BASE X X X O O O SECOND X X X O O O

D BASE X X O O O O SECOND X X O O O O - (difficult at first!)

Note: X X O O O O permits one to create the note with great expenditure of air. (One might try X X O X X X as well, but it could be much too sharp.)

There may be a slight price to pay if you use the alternate finger positions given below due to the notes being slightly sharper. That's why I use the alternate finger position as consistently as possible for notes in the top half of the second register, particularly where they are sequential in a piece of music. With more practice, one might counter sharper notes with embouchure or air velocity changes.

E BASE X O O O O O SECOND X O O X X X

NOTE: for D in second register of G major scale flute, I prefer to use
X X O X X X to make tone more consistent with E using similar fingering in second register instead of the potentially viable X X O O O X for D.
X X O O O X may work, but X X O X X X produces a tone that is more consistent with the result of the next higher note in second register produced using three fingers on lowest three tone holes in relative terms (at least for me).

F BASE O X X O O O SECOND O X X O O O

(or possibly O X X O O X depending on your preference and resulting tone with your flute, embouchure direction, and air flow.)

F# BASE O O O O O O SECOND O O O X X X

(Possibly O O O O O X for F# in second register but you'll have to create a faster stream of air than I can. There is also the matter of being able to consistently create a reproduceable tone, which is why I favor O O O X X X, making it more consistent with lower tones and making fingering more consistent with next lower notes as described above.)

And that is as high as I ever hope to go with these flutes...

I have played through a piece that uses the second register top notes, and found the above to be what I intend to use. I do have some doubts with regard to whether the resulting tones are perfectly valid relative to how sharp they will be if produced using the indicated, modified fingering for top few notes of second register, but embouchure and air flow affect how sharp the resulting notes are, and I'm not in any position to exercise a level of control sufficient to make an informed decision in that regard at this time.

(BE SURE TO CHECK ANY ALTERNATE FINGERING WITH A DIGITAL TUNER AND YOUR FLUTE AND TECHNIQUE BEFORE USING! THE RESULTS POSTED ARE STRICTLY THE PRODUCT OF MY AMATEUR EFFORTS AS A BEGINNER WITH A PVC LARGE BORE FLUTE. PROFESSIONALS OR AMATEURS WISHING TO PLAY WITH A GROUP SHOULD APPLY THEIR OWN JUDGEMENT AND METHODS TO PRODUCE AN APPROPRIATE TONE THAT WON'T BE OUT OF TUNE WITH OTHER INSTRUMENTS.)

[Mark]

LOL

it does get interesting when you take one of those up into the top of the second octave, doesn't it.

[Jaded]

I made these about a week ago, so there may be some adjustments to be made to the embouchure hole. For the most part, I 'm looking for and writing pieces between what would be D major on a D major scale whistle and the F note at the top of the treble clef. I can get roughly that high.

I'm trying to temper my urge to tinker with the flutes until I have better control over where and how much air I am using.

That flute lesson I just took taught me a little about how much air one should be employing to create a note by observing the instructor. The instructor noted that I was using far too much with my wind tunnel approach. Now I try to focus the air more and seek out the edge of the embouchure hole instead of simply sending air gushing toward it.

I think I will wind up grooving the near edge of the one flute's embouchure hole that did not get that treatment. It seems to make it easier to play, but again, I want to wait until I have a stable technique, so I don't ruin one of them based upon inexperience.

Thanks for the empathy...

[Mark]

hmm.. okay, what spec did you make them to?

I tend to use 3/4" Sked 40 pvc with (usually) a 3/8" embouchure hole.
but that is for a DD flute. My G flutes I use 1/2" sked 40 and generally the same 3/8" embouchure hole.

I have made a large bore using 1" sked 40 it had a really mellow voice to it.
Unfortunatley I do not recall how far up into the second octave I could go with it. My others are good for 2 octaves but they get harder to play up to pitch in the second octave since I didn't put a wedge or a spike in them. I just work on bending the pitch up to where it belongs.

I'll see if I can find the time to make another 1" bore pvc D flute and see how it holds up in the second register.

mark

[Jaded]

I used sched. 40 PVC, 3/4 inch. The bore is so large with this G major scale whistle that there is a severe pressure drop that gets in the way of going very far into the second register.

I've heard of the "wedge" concept as means of increasing the back pressure, but I've never seen what is specifically intended by that reference. (I don't have a clear image of what it looks like, but it sounds like a piece of cork sanded to block part of the airway and permit air travel above and below it.)

I have been more inclined to contemplate a simple piece of cork with a hole or holes bored into the center placed on the finger hole side of the embouchure hole between it and the top finger hole. It's a 45 cent investment and probably half an hour of my time, but I was hoping technique would enable me to overcome the need to engineer a simple flute.

My embouchure hole is slightly larger than 3/8 inch, but is partially blocked by my lip when I play.

For now I plan to continue to pursue better technique and see how far that will take me.

[Mark]

Okay, it's easier with a smaller bore for G.

to get the upper register in tune on a cylindrical simple flute, you have a
three options.

1. ignore it and bend the pitch up to where it needs to be.

2. use a Faredo wedge

3. use a varient of a Sander's spike.

the easiest way I have seen thus far for PVC is to make a wedge out of
the next size down pvc so that it fits smoothly in the inner diameter
of the flute.

I'll see if I can relocate the site of the flutemaker that describes it and post
it for you.

I would definitely concur with your decision to use playing technique to
take that as far as you can prior to making any serious design change.

mark