It's actually not true according to one of the examples (Chaminade) to which you may be referring. There is a very little blonde-haired American girl who floats around youtube playing Chaminade, Borne, etc., in all sorts of venues.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bS-jZ1GpKU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9qvzCc31Ec
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VDXurwCe0s
She certainly doesn't meet your stereotype and shows up all the time when I troll around youtube. I guess the western cultures beat their young into performances and steal childhoods, too; at least under your theory.
SK
"Advanced"
Moderators: Classitar, pied_piper, Phineas
Yeah SK, but this is also an example of what this thread was about. If an adult player performed the same way as this child did, every flute snob in america would complain about how bad the performance is.sidekicker wrote:It's actually not true according to one of the examples (Chaminade) to which you may be referring. There is a very little blonde-haired American girl who floats around youtube playing Chaminade, Borne, etc., in all sorts of venues.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bS-jZ1GpKU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9qvzCc31Ec
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VDXurwCe0s
She certainly doesn't meet your stereotype and shows up all the time when I troll around youtube. I guess the western cultures beat their young into performances and steal childhoods, too; at least under your theory.
SK
As far as Asians(or anyone else) beating thier children. I think its a lost art! That out of the way, I would just like to point out that if a parent restricts the activities of their child, they will have a lot of time to practice music. I was a professional guitar player at 14 performing with people 4 times my age(jazz/rock fusion). But I was a music freak. I practiced 6 to 8 hours aday! I did not play sports, chase girls, or play like the other children my age. My parents beat me when I got in trouble, not to force me to play music...lol If I had as much time to play these days as I had when I was a kid, I would be in the world renowned catagory.
Another factor is the family and area you come from. If you are a child that has musicians as parents, or grow up in a place where they are surrounded by mentors(New Orleans for example), there is a good chance that child will be a prodigy.
I believe most children do well at a young age because they want to do it, and mostly because of positive encouragement. That is just how I see it. Keep in mind that in the last 20 years, children have been exposed to more information than any other children generations before them. This may have something to do with that also.
Phineas
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sidekicker
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Oh I absolutely agree with you here, except that it doesn't take a "flute snob" to tell whether or not this little girl's performances, regardless of her age, are very good. Actually, they are quite poor IMO. I don't see much benefit in letting this little girl be a "star" with as many missed notes, bad phrasing, and general lack of any musicianship she exhibits. If she continues to play this way as an adult, no stage would welcome her. Yes, it's impressive for her age; but, no, it's not a good performance when we remove that aspect.Phineas wrote:Yeah SK, but this is also an example of what this thread was about. If an adult player performed the same way as this child did, every flute snob in america would complain about how bad the performance is.
And you are right -- that is the point of this thread
. It will be interesting to watch little Emily and see what she grows into. From what I can tell at this point, she's certainly no Midori -- or anything close.SK
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vampav8trix
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MissyHPhoenix
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Perhaps the little girl's performance wouldn't be considered outstanding as an adult, but as a 7 year old I was amazed! The flute looked bigger than she is! I was also impressed with her composure at performing pieces of music of that stature -- there is no way I could perform those in front of anybody, let alone memorized! I give her kudos for that alone. 
I hope she continues to develop and grow as a musician and doesn't let herself rest on the abilities she has now. She may not be another Midori (I wouldn't think there are many of those) but she could develop into a very good adult performer!
I hope she continues to develop and grow as a musician and doesn't let herself rest on the abilities she has now. She may not be another Midori (I wouldn't think there are many of those) but she could develop into a very good adult performer!
Missy
Why Be Normal????
Why Be Normal????
I am not saying the young lady is not gifted. However, if people keep pumping her brain up, she may never get any better. Also, she is no way good enough to execute solo performances at the level she is right now.MissyHPhoenix wrote:Perhaps the little girl's performance wouldn't be considered outstanding as an adult, but as a 7 year old I was amazed! The flute looked bigger than she is! I was also impressed with her composure at performing pieces of music of that stature -- there is no way I could perform those in front of anybody, let alone memorized! I give her kudos for that alone.
I hope she continues to develop and grow as a musician and doesn't let herself rest on the abilities she has now. She may not be another Midori (I wouldn't think there are many of those) but she could develop into a very good adult performer!
Frankly, I would rather see this young lady performing less difficult pieces that she can play well and more musically!!! I have seen lots of child musicians who can memorize notes. I would rather hear a young person that sounds good.
Phineas
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MissyHPhoenix
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Phineas, I completely agree with you. 
After sending the last reply, I thought about the topic in particular and realized that you weren't stating the young players were bad, only that they shouldn't be "pumped up" to think they were better than they actually are! I too think that it would be better for the youngsters to play pieces that are within their level, and play it well, with correct interpretation, so that they can build their abilities. I think I was just amazed that the little girl could play the pieces at all! My niece is one of these children who thinks that she is so good already that she doesn't need to practice -- she is getting this from her band director, and I am here to tell you that she is NOT good and has no basis for her inflated opinion at all. I also agree that the french compositions need a more mature interpretation that just is not often available from a youngster, simply because, IMO, the children cannot distinguish between the emotions of the piece, other than "soft or loud".
I should've thought about my reply a little more. Sorry!
After sending the last reply, I thought about the topic in particular and realized that you weren't stating the young players were bad, only that they shouldn't be "pumped up" to think they were better than they actually are! I too think that it would be better for the youngsters to play pieces that are within their level, and play it well, with correct interpretation, so that they can build their abilities. I think I was just amazed that the little girl could play the pieces at all! My niece is one of these children who thinks that she is so good already that she doesn't need to practice -- she is getting this from her band director, and I am here to tell you that she is NOT good and has no basis for her inflated opinion at all. I also agree that the french compositions need a more mature interpretation that just is not often available from a youngster, simply because, IMO, the children cannot distinguish between the emotions of the piece, other than "soft or loud".I should've thought about my reply a little more. Sorry!
Missy
Why Be Normal????
Why Be Normal????
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etgohomeok
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About that example with the girl playing Chaminade: there are parents like that here too, they're not ALL Asian. I'm assuming her parents sit holding a metronome two feet away from her face for hours every night. Asian parents are just known for it more than other cultures.
For example, if you search on Youtube for "child prodigy," about 50% of the results are "Asian" kinds and the rest are "Other." (http://www.youtube.com/results?search_q ... ld+prodigy)
There are two ways to be good at music: you either have it naturally and develop it yourself because it's something you love to do, or you practice for hours and hours on end until there's no possible way on Earth that you can play something wrong.
With one of these approaches, you end up loving music. With the other, you end up annoyed and hate the music. Raising kids to be prodigies is unhealthy because they end up as one of the latter.
For example, if you search on Youtube for "child prodigy," about 50% of the results are "Asian" kinds and the rest are "Other." (http://www.youtube.com/results?search_q ... ld+prodigy)
There are two ways to be good at music: you either have it naturally and develop it yourself because it's something you love to do, or you practice for hours and hours on end until there's no possible way on Earth that you can play something wrong.
With one of these approaches, you end up loving music. With the other, you end up annoyed and hate the music. Raising kids to be prodigies is unhealthy because they end up as one of the latter.
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fluteguy18
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etgohomeok wrote:About that example with the girl playing Chaminade: there are parents like that here too, they're not ALL Asian. I'm assuming her parents sit holding a metronome two feet away from her face for hours every night. Asian parents are just known for it more than other cultures.
For example, if you search on Youtube for "child prodigy," about 50% of the results are "Asian" kinds and the rest are "Other." (http://www.youtube.com/results?search_q ... ld+prodigy)
There are two ways to be good at music: you either have it naturally and develop it yourself because it's something you love to do, or you practice for hours and hours on end until there's no possible way on Earth that you can play something wrong.
With one of these approaches, you end up loving music. With the other, you end up annoyed and hate the music. Raising kids to be prodigies is unhealthy because they end up as one of the latter.
The last three sentences of you message just reminded me of something.
Has anyone read "Mozart in the Jungle" by Blair Tindall? Or "Nothing but the Best: The Struggle for Perfection at the Juilliard School" ? Both of these books either touched on or fully illustrated this subject [and others similiarly related]. I read them this week, and wondered if anyone had any thoughts on those books?
We could start a different thread on this quazi-related subject if anyone wants to. I just thought it was interesting and related.
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fluteguy18
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Definitely read the book about Juilliard first. It leads up to the Mozart book really well. The Mozart book actually quotes the Juilliard book a few times. [And besides, the Juilliard book is so shocking that it sort of helps desensitize you towards the Mozart book. Now THAT ONE is truly horrifying IMHO.]
musicality vz technicality
I think that both of these terms are improtant to the completness of music making. there are 2 sides to the story, the performer and the audience. The performer is usually more objective , the audience, more subjective, (especially if he is non professional).
I think that "technicality" and "musicality" go hand in hand in improtance, you can play technically great but with little "musicality" value , or the opposite be the most musical performer but play a piece with some technical mistakes in the wrong places , and it will sound terrible.
As for these young players who , some have mentioned here, play technically well but with no musicality, let me tell you that lots of people pick up a musical instrument , but don't really have that musicality perception, or understanding.
Its like in all arts, You know what , lets talk about photography(my other interest) , zillions of photographs are taken by millions of people worldwide every year, but you can count only a handfull of images that are really great, that have made such an imprint in your mind and remain there for a few minutes after looking at them.
I'm in the opinion that if every child in your country , community , our world, had a chance to play and study music for just a few years ,, it would almost eliminate all violence, wars etc, in out world.
Back to our discussion, most children want to "feel" the progress,it keeps them motivated, and for most , technical proficiency is usually more important, its only as we grow older that we are emotionally mature and experienced to comprehend the "musicality " aspect of music. The thing is to keep these children interest in the their instrument of choice long enough before they get the hang of it. I've heard already quite a few famous musicians who mentioned how they struggled to keep practising at young age and are now ,as adults, are glad that their parents forced them , lovingly , of course, to keep on playing ,
I for one , can tell you , that with quite a few years (Bassoon previously) in the making of music, have taken up the flute about 2 years ago and for the past year have been learning with an excellent teacher , and most of our lessons are spent in the production of good tone, and musical phrase, I also practise scales, of course for the dexterity of the fingers, but as you probably know, the flute, in particular, has an amost perfect scale (amongst the woodwind section)and is probably the easiest mechanism to handle .yet ,being such a lyrical instrument ,lack of musicality of a performer is really painful sometimes, as you all mention here
I think that "technicality" and "musicality" go hand in hand in improtance, you can play technically great but with little "musicality" value , or the opposite be the most musical performer but play a piece with some technical mistakes in the wrong places , and it will sound terrible.
As for these young players who , some have mentioned here, play technically well but with no musicality, let me tell you that lots of people pick up a musical instrument , but don't really have that musicality perception, or understanding.
Its like in all arts, You know what , lets talk about photography(my other interest) , zillions of photographs are taken by millions of people worldwide every year, but you can count only a handfull of images that are really great, that have made such an imprint in your mind and remain there for a few minutes after looking at them.
I'm in the opinion that if every child in your country , community , our world, had a chance to play and study music for just a few years ,, it would almost eliminate all violence, wars etc, in out world.
Back to our discussion, most children want to "feel" the progress,it keeps them motivated, and for most , technical proficiency is usually more important, its only as we grow older that we are emotionally mature and experienced to comprehend the "musicality " aspect of music. The thing is to keep these children interest in the their instrument of choice long enough before they get the hang of it. I've heard already quite a few famous musicians who mentioned how they struggled to keep practising at young age and are now ,as adults, are glad that their parents forced them , lovingly , of course, to keep on playing ,
I for one , can tell you , that with quite a few years (Bassoon previously) in the making of music, have taken up the flute about 2 years ago and for the past year have been learning with an excellent teacher , and most of our lessons are spent in the production of good tone, and musical phrase, I also practise scales, of course for the dexterity of the fingers, but as you probably know, the flute, in particular, has an amost perfect scale (amongst the woodwind section)and is probably the easiest mechanism to handle .yet ,being such a lyrical instrument ,lack of musicality of a performer is really painful sometimes, as you all mention here