Flute in Jazz

[akonojo]

hey what do you think a bout this i asked to audition to go into the jazz band but my teacher wont let me. he says that "there is'nt much flute sheet music in jazz" and when i looked it up there are mad flutist in jazz. has that ever happen to ? its mad annoying.

plus does your teacher make you have your flute parallel or slanted the way that it's ment to be?

[Phineas]

Your teacher is correct. Most bigband charts that have flute are either solo, or as a doubling instrument. If your instructor is not going to take the time to write out a part for you, then you will not get to play much.

Band teachers have all the good intent in the world, so I would not take it personally. Also, most band teachers are not very creative. They are there to serve a purpose of educating the students, not be arrangers/composers. Every so often, I will run into a creative band director that would be willing to write arrangements to fit differnt instrumentation into a group. For the most part, charts for big band are just purchased and played "as is".

Now that I will get flamed by band teachers...lol... I will address the holding the flute issue. The main place I have seen this enforced is marching band. I cannot speak for your teachers reasons, but most people here would agree that holding a flute that way for long periods of time may/will cause injury.

Phineas

[pied_piper]

Your teacher is correct. Most bigband charts that have flute are either solo, or as a doubling instrument. If your instructor is not going to take the time to write out a part for you, then you will not get to play much.

Band teachers have all the good intent in the world, so I would not take it personally. Also, most band teachers are not very creative. They are there to serve a purpose of educating the students, not be arrangers/composers. Every so often, I will run into a creative band director that would be willing to write arrangements to fit differnt instrumentation into a group. For the most part, charts for big band are just purchased and played "as is".

Now that I will get flamed by band teachers...lol... I will address the holding the flute issue. The main place I have seen this enforced is marching band. I cannot speak for your teachers reasons, but most people here would agree that holding a flute that way for long periods of time may/will cause injury.

Phineas

As a former school band director, I can attest that Phineas is correct. Band directors have to juggle many priorities and there's usually not enough time or desire for them to write out parts for "extra" instruments. If the score includes a flute, it usually is a double for one or more of the sax players.

If you are really interested in playing jazz flute, consider learning the sax. It will expand your abilities and give you more playing time in jazz. (When I was in school, I played in the jazz band but I doubled on sax, flute, and clarinet.) Most scores for jazz or broadway-type shows require doubling on two, three, or even more woodwind instruments, so if that's where your interests lie, then you need to learn to play the other woodwinds.

[etgohomeok]

Official winner of the Most Illogical and Senseless Statement of the Year trophy goes to:

If you are really interested in playing jazz flute, consider learning the sax.

I played flute in the jazz band last year, I never got anything written out for me and it worked out fine. The only sheet music I got were a few guitar parts, which were mainly just so I could have the chord changes for the solo sections, and the occasional melody written out. Tell your teacher that Jazz is all about improvisation and you don't need sheet music.

Learn some blues scales and incorporate them into your minor scales and go play an improvised solo for your teacher.

As far as holding your flute goes, do whatever feels comfortable. If that means an exact 90 degrees angle with the floor, then so be it.

[Phineas]

Official winner of the Most Illogical and Senseless Statement of the Year trophy goes to:

If you are really interested in playing jazz flute, consider learning the sax.

I played flute in the jazz band last year, I never got anything written out for me and it worked out fine. The only sheet music I got were a few guitar parts, which were mainly just so I could have the chord changes for the solo sections, and the occasional melody written out. Tell your teacher that Jazz is all about improvisation and you don't need sheet music.

Learn some blues scales and incorporate them into your minor scales and go play an improvised solo for your teacher.

As far as holding your flute goes, do whatever feels comfortable. If that means an exact 90 degrees angle with the floor, then so be it.

This all depends on the teacher ET. Some teachers are really purists when it comes to how the music is executed. I have seen some teachers go as far as play the Count Basie record for the class so they could try to play exacty like it. This is REALLY frustrating for Modern guitar players. Freddie Green played on an arch top acoustic with no amp!...lol Most of these tunes were written in a time where there were no Jazz flute players. A lot of arrangers have held true to this setup. Even in this day and age jazz flute players are fairly rare. I am not talking about doublers, but dedicated flute players that play jazz.

Combo jazz is WAY different than band jazz. Often, when a highschool/college band has enough members, they may put a performance combo together. All you need are some lead sheets, and a rhythm section. Every so often, a band director will be flexible and try new things. Most wont. You got lucky!

Phineas

[pied_piper]

Official winner of the Most Illogical and Senseless Statement of the Year trophy goes to:

If you are really interested in playing jazz flute, consider learning the sax.

Whoa ET. You've taken my statement out of context. It was not meant as advice for every flutist that wants to play jazz. It was specifically a reply to akonojo who was shut out of the school jazz band that he wanted to join. In his situation, I think my statement was valid, since his band director won't admit a flutist because the director's concept of a jazz band is apparently big band style. That may be not be fair, but that is akonojo's situation and because of that, his only viable alternative (in his school program) to get exposure to playing jazz is to do so by gaining entry as a sax player and doubling on flute when the score calls for it.

I did not intend to imply that every flutist wanting to play jazz has to play the sax. There certainly are jazz flutists that do not play sax, but, the reality is that there are far more opportunities in jazz for doublers.

The reverse situation occurs for classical saxophonists. It's very rare that symphonies add a sax - it only happens when they perform a work that happens to include a sax part.

[etgohomeok]

If you go in as a sax player and the director doesn't want flute, you're giving yourself less of a chance of getting to play jazz flute than if you just argue with him/her every day until he/she breaks down.

Anyways, learning the saxophone screws with your flute playing so it's a bad idea in the first place

[ed97643]

Might not be quite the same thing, but in my school days, I played clarinet in the concert band & orchestra. My ticket in to the jazz band was to learn the sax. Now, admittedly, it's less of a "stretch" to go from clarinet to sax than flute to sax (I speculate), but now (many years later) I can say one thing: I'm at least glad that I did learn the sax. I got exposed to music & experiences that I'd never have had with the concert band & orchestra alone. Hope this is food for thought.

Best,
ed

[akonojo]

still why should i have to learn a new instruments. as far as i know the trumbone and piano both are in the key of C. i could look at thier music right?

[etgohomeok]

Might not be quite the same thing, but in my school days, I played clarinet in the concert band & orchestra. My ticket in to the jazz band was to learn the sax. Now, admittedly, it's less of a "stretch" to go from clarinet to sax than flute to sax (I speculate), but now (many years later) I can say one thing: I'm at least glad that I did learn the sax. I got exposed to music & experiences that I'd never have had with the concert band & orchestra alone. Hope this is food for thought.

Best,
ed

I had even better experiences with Jazz Band, and I never touched another instrument. Well, a clarinet once or twice, but I promptly discarded that idea.

[Phineas]

still why should i have to learn a new instruments. as far as i know the trumbone and piano both are in the key of C. i could look at thier music right?

First of all, Trombones are in Bass Clef, and often times, the piano parts are writen as chords similar to this. Especially on highschool charts!

Am7 | D7 | GMaj7

Well, it depends on what kind of jazz band it is. If the Jazz band is a combo, dixieland, or a Dave Pell type of band, you could play almost any instrument and it would be fine. Most high school jazz bands are based on big/swing bands. These bands are written/arranged with fixed instrumentation. Usually

4 - Trumpets
4 - Trombones
5 - Saxophones(2 alto, 2 tenor, and a bari)
1 - Piano
1 - Bass
1 - Drum
1 - Guitar(Sometimes)

This is your problem. If you want to play, and your school jazz band is configured like this, then you will have to play one of these instruments. Although there are big band charts made for flute as a solo instrument, your teacher would have to re-arrange the score to fit you in it. If you played first Alto, you would have the best chance to play flute.

It is unfortunate, but that is just how it is. These days, just to get out to play, I have started doubling on Sax<Bleck>. At least I get out to play. That is all that counts!

Phineas

Again, it all depends on how flexible the band instructor is.

[pied_piper]

If you go in as a sax player and the director doesn't want flute, you're giving yourself less of a chance of getting to play jazz flute than if you just argue with him/her every day until he/she breaks down.

Anyways, learning the saxophone screws with your flute playing so it's a bad idea in the first place

Any student that tries to argue with their director is likely to be shut down with that approach. School bands are not a democracy, the director is solely in charge. You can try to persuade them to see your point of view, but arguing is just a bad idea... It's like the old adage that you can catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

The second comment makes about as much sense as saying that talking screws with your flute embouchure or that typing on a computer keyboard screws with your flute fingering...

[etgohomeok]

Talking and typing are not accociated with music in any way and involve the mouth and hands being in very different positions. Playing another instrument involves similar finger positions and can mess with the way you think.

Have you ever played the piccolo in a practice for an hour or so, then switched to a song where you play the flute and found it takes getting used to? Same idea.

[musical_Kat]

Have you ever played the piccolo in a practice for an hour or so, then switched to a song where you play the flute and found it takes getting used to? Same idea.

Yes I have.....on many occassions. Once you've done it enough you find that long hours on piccolo and then switching to flute actually enhances your flute sound....doesn't take away from it. There are many MANY doublers out there that sound really REALLY great on every instrument they play. I would definitely not try and discourage someone from branching out musically and trying new things. I think that as a musician in general it's great. We aren't just flutists....we are MUSICIANS. We can learn other things.

[pied_piper]

...Once you've done it enough you find that long hours on piccolo and then switching to flute actually enhances your flute sound....doesn't take away from it.

Exactly. Just like playing a single instrument, the key to doubling is to practice doing it. Sure, when first starting to do it, it takes some getting used to just as it does for a beginner learning playing their first instrument. But after a while you don't even have to think about it. It's called muscle memory and the lips and fingers do what they're supposed to do without consciously having to think about it. I've had gigs where I had to switch between flute, piccolo, sax, clarinet, tin whistle, and recorder all in the same session. When playing, I don't have to think about which fingering to use to play a note for the instrument that I have in my hands at any given moment.