Are Silver Heads Always Stamped as Such?

[wally]

Hi folks, hope this isn't a worn-out topic....

Just purchased a headjoint for my student Yamaha. It was described as a Powell Signature headjoint, and sports the Powell triangular logo halfway down the tubing, with a cursive-style "Verne Q Powell" signature just below that.

However, nowhere on this headjoint is there any indication of the base metal, so I'm a bit confused. I have no experience with USA-made pro flutes, but everything I've ever seen that was made of silver (sterling, coin, etc.) was labeled/stamped as such.

Also, searching web images, the only Powell Signature series headjoints I've seen do -not- have a cursive signature stamped on the tubing. I'm assuming the headjoint I bought is one that Powell offers separately from its flutes, but I'm really clueless about this (etc....).

Any thoughts?

[fluteguy18]

If it is a Powell, and it isn't obviously gold or platinum, I would almost be willing to guarantee that it is solid silver. As far as I remember, Powell only offers solid metal instruments, and have only EVER offered solid metal instruments (meaning no plating). So, I would guess that it is solid silver.

UNLESS.... it is possible for it to be plated if it could possibly be a knockoff. Then I might would worry. But it probably isn't one. I haven't heard of knockoff Powells before, but you never know...

Generally you can tell what the base metal is by looking at the tenon (the part that goes into the body joint). Only in unique cases (like the Pearl Flute Company and their upper end solid silver rose gold plated models) does the plating cover the tenon as well. I think Sonare and Brio offer gold plated models as well with tenon plating, but I'm not sure about that. So looking at the tenon should give you an indicator.

But if it is a Powell, I would bet it's solid silver.

[wally]

Hi there fluteguy18, thanks for your take.

Although I suppose the joint -could be- a knockoff of some kind, if it is, someone certainly put a lot of craftsmanship and effort into it. (Embouchure hole is heavily undercut.) I'm leaning toward it being a genuine Powell. As it's new, it hasn't been fit to anything yet and has only minimal scratching on the tenon from being perhaps test-played in a flute body at the source. The OD is a tad too large to fit in my Yamaha, so I'll have to get this fit before I can say more about it.

[ExPhysKid]

Wally - Be VERY careful before trying to have the Powell headjoint resized to fit your Yamaha. Headjoints that are a bit small can easily be expanded, but not many reputable repairmen would try and shrink a headjoint...especially if it's a Powell. Doing so can crush the tube, which would render it absolutely worthless. If it were on the small side, I wouldn't be concerned. But since it's too big, I'd strongly encourage you to consider other options. You don't want to ruin a Powell headjoint!

[pied_piper]

Wally - Be VERY careful before trying to have the Powell headjoint resized to fit your Yamaha. Headjoints that are a bit small can easily be expanded, but not many reputable repairmen would try and shrink a headjoint...especially if it's a Powell. Doing so can crush the tube, which would render it absolutely worthless. If it were on the small side, I wouldn't be concerned. But since it's too big, I'd strongly encourage you to consider other options. You don't want to ruin a Powell headjoint!

Actually, good flute shops do this all the time. There are specialized tools that are used to adjust the tenon size - either smaller or larger. A special flute head swedging die is used to carefully shrink the tenon. Conversely, a headjoint that is too small can be enlarged with a tenon expander. In the hands of a qualified flute technician, these tools can easily shrink or expand most modern headjoint tenons to fit another modern flute.

There are limits, of course, but typically, the tenons of most modern flutes are within the allowable tolerance. These are generally in the range of .770 to .790. Most of the intermediate/pro flutes produced today have tenons around .775-.781. In most cases, headjoints within this range (a few thousandths of an inch) can be easily resized by a professional flute technician with no danger of damage or ill effects.

See this comparison chart:
http://goferjoe.bygones.biz/headsize.htm

If the difference between the headjoint and flute receiver are too great for resizing by expanding or shrinking, then the technician would tell you that it should not be resized to fit that particular flute. In those instances, the options could be to change the flute receiver to one that is a different size or if the headjoint is significantly smaller, to install a thin sleeve on the headjoint.

[JButky]

Hi folks, hope this isn't a worn-out topic....

However, nowhere on this headjoint is there any indication of the base metal, so I'm a bit confused. I have no experience with USA-made pro flutes, but everything I've ever seen that was made of silver (sterling, coin, etc.) was labeled/stamped as such.

Any thoughts?

Stamping identification varies by country. There are various methods to carry a mark and different countries handle it differently.

If you want to know if its silver you can perform a quick harmless test.
Tip of the day..

Hold the headjoint by the crown end. Flick your index finger against the tenon end. If it rings, its plated. If you get a dull thunk, its silver.

Yes we re-size headjoints frequently, within moderation in either direction.
You don't want to overdo it and only after you've purchased a headjoint. If you've got a really thinned walled instrument its will be hard to find a lot of heads that will fit because no-one is going to resize a head down, just for a trial. Resizing up temporarily is easy and tape on the tenon will usually provide an adequate fit for trial. Then it can be sized for real if purchased.

[wally]

Hi again all, many thanks for the comments. Interestingly, I had done the tenon-flick test and the Powell HJ responds with a dull thwunk whereas the nickel-silver HJ in my student Yamaha does indeedy ring like a bell. I noticed much the same effect when running a wooden cleaning rod through both (to check the tuning cork); as the side of the cleaning rod occasionally slid across the edge of the tenon, the Yamaha nickel-silver joint would sing; the Powell was virtually silent.

In any event, I ended up calling Powell and they set me straight, saying I indeed have a Powell Signature HJ made in silver. One of the people I spoke with insisted the HJ should have a serial number. She transferred me to someone else who explained that the aftermarket Signatures sold separately from any flute would not have a serial. Second person also explained Powell only makes flutes (and headjoints) in silver or other precious metals.

The Powell HJ tubing is about 0.016-inch thick; the O.D. at tenon edge is about .782 inch, whereas the Yamaha is .780 or so. I do have an old SML brass flute that needs a bunch of work, but the Powell joint is small enough that a couple wraps of teflon tape had it fitting the SML enough to play. Did wonders for the upper two registers, not so much for the first, but the SML has a leaky A pad, and now I'm in a quandary. Which flute should I use this Powell with? Can't have it with both unless I size it to the Yamaha and use teflon tape every time I want to pair it with the SML (nice flute btw; brass, soldered TH, and really thickwall = .020-.022 or so....)

[andy957]

I just played a Sonare 70 series and the specs state solid silver headjoint and body but neither of those pieces (nor the foot joint) had the stamp.

I wonder if it's like a piece of jewelry wherein if it is sterling silver, it MUST have the stamp.

[jrbrook76]

Wally - Be VERY careful before trying to have the Powell headjoint resized to fit your Yamaha. Headjoints that are a bit small can easily be expanded, but not many reputable repairmen would try and shrink a headjoint...especially if it's a Powell. Doing so can crush the tube, which would render it absolutely worthless. If it were on the small side, I wouldn't be concerned. But since it's too big, I'd strongly encourage you to consider other options. You don't want to ruin a Powell headjoint!

I didn't look at how old this is, but you should consult headjoint maker and brilliant technician Jeff Weissman. It's an inexpensive job to have something fitted, even when having it done by the best in the business. Please do yourself a favor and have someone high up in the flute making/repair world handle this for you.