Bad Teacher or Bad Student?

[Fox]

I went to a teacher last night. It did not go well. I had told the teacher that what I wanted was for a person to indicate the things that I was doing wrong and needed to correct.
There were two points which really bothered me. The first one was when I asked her if I was assembling my flute into the proper position. She looked and tells me that my head-joint is too far inwards. She placed it in the proper position. When I tried to play I was unable to get a single sound.
I explained to her that it seemed hard to do that and was unable to get the bottom edge of my lip to the edge of the tone hole. Her solution was: She turned my flute inwards while I played. As soon as I was able to produce a sound she stopped. The result was that the head-joint was in almost the exact position but now the flute was turned inward and now so unbalanced it was laying on my left hand thumb.
I tried to explain that it would seem better if the flute was balanced and the head-joint turned, but she just smiled one of those "I'm a teacher, you know nothing" smiles and said that it might seem that way but it's not.

My second complaint was that at the end of the session she mentions that the next lesson she is going to show me how to clean the flute and take care of stick pads. I mentioned that I knew to use cigarette paper. She smiled that smile again and then said "Yea, you can use those, but better is to use a dollar bill" this comment was the one thing that definitely made my decision not to go back.

edit: Oh and when I mentioned that I used a tuner, she had no idea what that was and she went on about teaching me later how to use the cleaning rod to properly tune the flute! When I tried to correct her she again gave me that smile and stopped me.

[fluttiegurl]

Personally, I would not go back.

I don't like to teacher bash as I know how hard it is to get started and to maintain an active studio. However, I have a criteria list that I hand out to students when I do clinics in schools. This list has helped me determine who my teachers would be over the years. Most of it is pretty much common sense.

1. What are the credentials of this teacher? Not everyone has to have a Masters to teach, but the level of the student should be below the level of the teacher both in experience and ability.

2. Is the teacher an active performer? This may or may not make a difference, but I think it is good to know as well as why/why not.

3. Who were the teacher's past teachers? I began teaching private lessons in high school, but not until I had taken them myself. What I have found is that many young teachers starting out have never had lessons and sometimes do not know exactly what is expected of a private instructor.

4. Is the teacher still studying with someone else? Not a deal breaker, but many of my teachers over the years, most very highly acclaimed performers, take lessons well beyond grad and post grad school. This tells me that they are willing to continue learning and growing as musicians. If the teacher is a high school student, an undergrad or does not attend college and is not taking lessons, this could become a deal breaker.

5. Would that teacher be willing to give a free lesson in order for you to get to know him/her? I do this, but some will not. I want to know that I can work with this person before making a commitment, both as a teacher and as a student.

I also tell students that they do not know everything and they will find that a teacher may disagree with what they thought was truth. In many cases, the teacher is right. However, I don't think the teacher you are speaking of falls into this category. If instinct tells you to stay away, that would probably be best.

[Phineas]

I went to a teacher last night. It did not go well. I had told the teacher that what I wanted was for a person to indicate the things that I was doing wrong and needed to correct.
There were two points which really bothered me. The first one was when I asked her if I was assembling my flute into the proper position. She looked and tells me that my head-joint is too far inwards. She placed it in the proper position. When I tried to play I was unable to get a single sound.
I explained to her that it seemed hard to do that and was unable to get the bottom edge of my lip to the edge of the tone hole. Her solution was: She turned my flute inwards while I played. As soon as I was able to produce a sound she stopped. The result was that the head-joint was in almost the exact position but now the flute was turned inward and now so unbalanced it was laying on my left hand thumb.
I tried to explain that it would seem better if the flute was balanced and the head-joint turned, but she just smiled one of those "I'm a teacher, you know nothing" smiles and said that it might seem that way but it's not.

My second complaint was that at the end of the session she mentions that the next lesson she is going to show me how to clean the flute and take care of stick pads. I mentioned that I knew to use cigarette paper. She smiled that smile again and then said "Yea, you can use those, but better is to use a dollar bill" this comment was the one thing that definitely made my decision not to go back.

edit: Oh and when I mentioned that I used a tuner, she had no idea what that was and she went on about teaching me later how to use the cleaning rod to properly tune the flute! When I tried to correct her she again gave me that smile and stopped me.

First I would like to address something that Fluttiegurl said

1. What are the credentials of this teacher? Not everyone has to have a Masters to teach, but the level of the student should be below the level of the teacher both in experience and ability.

I do not totally agree with that. A good teacher does not necessarily have to be the greatest player in the world, just a good teacher. I have taught saxophone students for years that turned out to be better saxophonists than me, even up to the college level. Knowledge and ability are not always synonymous IMHO. Are you getting results should be the gauge of how good your teacher is. I know a lot of fantastic players that are terrible teachers.

There are a lot of instrument teachers out there that only know enough to get someone started on an instrument. Often, the instrument they are teaching is not even the instrument they play. I actually met a trumpet player that use to teach flute. He was desperate for money, so he decided to start teaching it at entry level. This is really common with local music schools.

When it comes to teachers, you have to interview them. Especially if you are past entry level. It is important that you find a teacher/coach that will take you the direction you want to go. Also has the knowledge and experience to get you there. Ask your local music majors who they go to for instruction. Check out you local flute clubs/organizations. Heck, these days you can even ask around the coffee joints...lol I found my advanced teacher through a local flute society.

Good luck on your search.

Phineas

[fluteguy18]

Personally, I would not go back.


4. Is the teacher still studying with someone else? Not a deal breaker, but many of my teachers over the years, most very highly acclaimed performers, take lessons well beyond grad and post grad school. This tells me that they are willing to continue learning and growing as musicians. If the teacher is a high school student, an undergrad or does not attend college and is not taking lessons, this could become a deal breaker.

This is definitely something I run up against. I have a very hard time getting students and it's mostly because I am still in my undergrad. It doesn't matter to most people that I can play circles around almost everyone I know (everyone in school and most of those out of school), nor does it matter that I practically taught the flute teaching techniques class I took. It doesn't even matter that I now study with a world renowned flutist in addition to my undergraduate studies. People just can't get over the fact that I am an undergrad. What few students I do have, a few of them tried out other teachers (including one of my own) and chose me instead.

So most of the time this can be a big issue with people. You should decide if it is something you have an problem with. I personally would hope that if you run into someone who offers lessons but is still a student themselves that you give them a chance. You never know who they might become in the future.

[fluttiegurl]

I see your point, though I don't totally agree. I do know some fantastic players who can't teach, but I question anyone who teaches something they can't at least play proficiently. I say this because I spend a lot of time correcting wrong hand positions, fingerings, etc., taught by band directors or even private teachers. However, I do realize that there are exceptions and I don't doubt you, Phineas, at all. If you are half as knowledgeable about sax as you are flute, you must be a good teacher.

But in the case mentioned here, this is obviously a misguided flutist who needs to study herself. This is what I try to get students to avoid altogether.

My philosophy is, if I am going to shell out the money, I want the best I can find.

[Phineas]

I see your point, though I don't totally agree. I do know some fantastic players who can't teach, but I question anyone who teaches something they can't at least play proficiently. I say this because I spend a lot of time correcting wrong hand positions, fingerings, etc., taught by band directors or even private teachers. However, I do realize that there are exceptions and I don't doubt you, Phineas, at all. If you are half as knowledgeable about sax as you are flute, you must be a good teacher.

But in the case mentioned here, this is obviously a misguided flutist who needs to study herself. This is what I try to get students to avoid altogether.

My philosophy is, if I am going to shell out the money, I want the best I can find.

I totally agree! There are too many teachers out there that are just in it for the supplemental income. Instead of the prospect of being a successful teacher.

[Classitar]

"Yea, you can use those, but better is to use a dollar bill"

Funny! I don't mind those in my wallet but I don't want them anywhere near my mouth!

[Fleming]

"Yea, you can use those, but better is to use a dollar bill" this comment was the one thing that definitely made my decision not to go back.

More important than knowing everything is being willing to learn from the student. I had a flute teacher who gave me the exact same advice about a dollar bill. I corrected him on it, he thanked me, and we moved on. That particular incident happened not long after I started taking lessons from him, and I can't enumerate how much I learned from the man since. He was a brilliant teacher with a deep understanding of music, and I shudder to think what I would have missed out on if I had decided not to go back simply because he hadn't learned that dollar bills are bad for flute pads. There were similar incidents where he learned new things from me, and consequently I expect to learn from my own students.

The person mentioned in the OP does not strike me as a particularly good teacher. I just wanted to relay my story of the dollar bill just in case something like that happens to be the only complaint you have of a teacher in the future.

[Fox]

fluteguy18 - I Emailed my university and asked the flute teacher to send me names of students that would be willing to teach, but never heard from the teacher

Classitar - I don't even carry money any more. I usually just have a credit card and get quite annoyed when I have to go out of my way to get money from the bank.

fluttiegurl - I got the teachers name from a list of private flute teachers that the flute association has - she was the only one that called me back.
I just send a couple Emails to a few other teachers - I'll keep your tips in mind if they answer me back.

[pied_piper]

I got the teachers name from a list of private flute teachers that the flute association has - she was the only one that called me back.
I just send a couple Emails to a few other teachers - I'll keep your tips in mind if they answer me back.

Hmm - Since she was the only one who called back, perhaps that's an indication that most students are studying with the other teachers rather than her and there may be a good reason for that as you have witnessed personally. Often, the really good teachers have a full schedule and sometimes they might forget to return calls when there are no openings in their schedule.

While email is good, you might get better results with a phone call. That way you can discuss your goals, the teachers appproach and qualifications, etc.

[Fox]

That's a good point, pied_piper. I'll give this teacher I emailed a call.

[Bo]

"Yea, you can use those, but better is to use a dollar bill"

Funny! I don't mind those in my wallet but I don't want them anywhere near my mouth!

I agree...
Maybe the OP should have asked the teacher to give him a NEW 1,000 $ banknote for the task....

[vernuskloyz]

You never mentioned your hardisk make.
Wether it is seagate or samsumg or any other brand. If it is seagate then u must visit seagate site where u can find some useful software to remap bad sectors.

[pied_piper]

I think the hard disk on my flute is going bad. That has to be the reason that wrong notes are coming out of my flute.

[Fox]

Have you considered remapping your keys?