If there are any good Muramatsu techs out there who can explain foot tenon repair issues, please give me a holler.
Thx
Foot Tenon Repair Problems
Moderators: Classitar, pied_piper, Phineas
Re: Foot Tenon Repair Problems
What is the problem? (BTW you don't need a good muramatsu tech. Just a good flute tech...)
Joe B
Re: Foot Tenon Repair Problems
Yeah Thx Joe, I'm aware of that; since I live in the middle of nowhere and am looking for a good tech, I wanted to mention my flute make to see if I got any bites. You're right - a good tech is a good tech and they're hard to find. If you can't find one nearby it's bad news, since you can't check out the repairs in person.
I sent my flute to a high profile Muramatsu dealer for COA and tenon repair and got it back with my wallet considerably lighter and the foot just negligibly better. Very unhappy. They said they reset the foot tenon, so I expected it to feel near new, but it's still rough. Actually, I don't know what a reset consists of - are they supposed to work on the cup or the tenon or both or what? Regardless, when you spend money for a specific repair you'd think it would get done right. I've got two older Yamahas and those fit better than this newly "reset" Mura.
Foot tenon had become scratched and very (ridiculously) difficult to attach/remove. I've come to the conclusion that the water is so hard where I live it's turning soft cleaning cloths slightly abrasive, and it seems once a tenon gets rough, it only gets worse with continued use and no fixing. Anyway I got some new cloths and only rinse them now in purified water.
I was unaware that anything could be used as a lubricant in such a case, but it seems a tad of candle wax is safe and effective. So since the foot is still rough I'm using that to prevent more friction. Feel like quite the fool having to do that when I just spent $$ to fix it. The tenon itself (on the bottom end of the body) still has visible scratches, not real bad but worse than the normal wear you'd see on that or a headjoint tenon. Maybe it needed to be polished too?
I sent my flute to a high profile Muramatsu dealer for COA and tenon repair and got it back with my wallet considerably lighter and the foot just negligibly better. Very unhappy. They said they reset the foot tenon, so I expected it to feel near new, but it's still rough. Actually, I don't know what a reset consists of - are they supposed to work on the cup or the tenon or both or what? Regardless, when you spend money for a specific repair you'd think it would get done right. I've got two older Yamahas and those fit better than this newly "reset" Mura.
Foot tenon had become scratched and very (ridiculously) difficult to attach/remove. I've come to the conclusion that the water is so hard where I live it's turning soft cleaning cloths slightly abrasive, and it seems once a tenon gets rough, it only gets worse with continued use and no fixing. Anyway I got some new cloths and only rinse them now in purified water.
I was unaware that anything could be used as a lubricant in such a case, but it seems a tad of candle wax is safe and effective. So since the foot is still rough I'm using that to prevent more friction. Feel like quite the fool having to do that when I just spent $$ to fix it. The tenon itself (on the bottom end of the body) still has visible scratches, not real bad but worse than the normal wear you'd see on that or a headjoint tenon. Maybe it needed to be polished too?
Re: Foot Tenon Repair Problems
This sounds like a case of embedded grit in the the tenon box. If some sandpaper was used at some point in its finishing and a grain got embedded in the tenon this is what is causing the scratching and galling. These are buggers to get cleaned out.
The wax you described is actually a good way to help remove it over time. I use regular paraffin wax, coat the tenon and insert working it with a slight twisting motion while puling and pushing in and out. Then clean the black residue out and repeat as many times as necessary. A deep scratch may need polishing to a degree as a localized treatment and followed with the paraffin again to draw out any other grit.
This may also need a slightly different fitting operation once all this is done. Wax can loosen the tenon a bit, but it can still be restored and the refit done with a somewhat different technique than what is often used.
The good news, is if you continue to use the wax and clean it out regularly it will smooth out fine over time. The irritating news is that you will probably need to have the tenon sized again.
The wax you described is actually a good way to help remove it over time. I use regular paraffin wax, coat the tenon and insert working it with a slight twisting motion while puling and pushing in and out. Then clean the black residue out and repeat as many times as necessary. A deep scratch may need polishing to a degree as a localized treatment and followed with the paraffin again to draw out any other grit.
This may also need a slightly different fitting operation once all this is done. Wax can loosen the tenon a bit, but it can still be restored and the refit done with a somewhat different technique than what is often used.
The good news, is if you continue to use the wax and clean it out regularly it will smooth out fine over time. The irritating news is that you will probably need to have the tenon sized again.
Joe B
Re: Foot Tenon Repair Problems
Those are the symptoms, but there was certainly no sandpaper. Like I said, the water here was turning cloths abrasive, and that's from very fine sediment from the tap. Clothes turn rough here too regardless of how much softener you use, fyi 
. Only thing I can think of. That and I did go through a period of laziness where I would just use a flag on it and cover it with a cozy between practice sessions. When I went back to religiously wiping down the tenons again it still kept getting worse. :-\
If the tenon box is the female end on the footjoint, that feels very smooth, while I can see light scratching on male side.
Regardless, it seems the repairman should have checked it and done the polishing as it was noticeable the first time I tried it upon receipt.
Yes, that's the good thing about the wax is that it wipes off after each use and then you can apply a bit more the next time.
What is this special refitting I should mention if it ever gets too loose? That sounds like the eventual outcome if I read you right.
Do you do repairs?
Many Thanks
. Only thing I can think of. That and I did go through a period of laziness where I would just use a flag on it and cover it with a cozy between practice sessions. When I went back to religiously wiping down the tenons again it still kept getting worse. :-\If the tenon box is the female end on the footjoint, that feels very smooth, while I can see light scratching on male side.
Regardless, it seems the repairman should have checked it and done the polishing as it was noticeable the first time I tried it upon receipt.
Yes, that's the good thing about the wax is that it wipes off after each use and then you can apply a bit more the next time.
What is this special refitting I should mention if it ever gets too loose? That sounds like the eventual outcome if I read you right.
Do you do repairs?
Many Thanks
Re: Foot Tenon Repair Problems
Seems smooth yes, but most likely there is a piece of embedded grit somewhere. It's not usually in the tenon, but that's usually where you see this result.
It's not so much the refitting tools as it is techniques applied.
I do private repairs, but my home shop is booked up through September. I only have weekends to work on non Pearl work related flute repairs.
Keep up with the wax and clean routine. It will eventually loosen the tenon again and will need to be tightened, but it will slowly and evenly begin to draw out the embedded grit particle. Rather than using water, try a fresh alcohol swab whenever you need to clean it.
You are lucky, the worst cases of this left unattended can get to the point where you can't even get the foot joint off.
It's not so much the refitting tools as it is techniques applied.
I do private repairs, but my home shop is booked up through September. I only have weekends to work on non Pearl work related flute repairs.
Keep up with the wax and clean routine. It will eventually loosen the tenon again and will need to be tightened, but it will slowly and evenly begin to draw out the embedded grit particle. Rather than using water, try a fresh alcohol swab whenever you need to clean it.
You are lucky, the worst cases of this left unattended can get to the point where you can't even get the foot joint off.
Joe B
Re: Foot Tenon Repair Problems
Well thanks for the replies Joe. Nice to have an expert assessment and to know I'm doing the right thing. You are certainly right about that worse case scenario. The reason I finally sent it in is exactly what you were saying - it got to the point where I was having to apply so much torque to remove it, I thought I'd break the solder. Anyway it's working fine as is although I've an extra step in assembly and disassembly. Not in a hurry to part with it again soon, so I'm just using the wax as needed. Will give the alcohol a go now and then also.
Maybe I'll try to hunt you down via Pearl and chat one of these days. That is if you're not too busy with Rhonda Larson's flutes.
Sounds like you've got job security.
Take Care,
Loch
Maybe I'll try to hunt you down via Pearl and chat one of these days. That is if you're not too busy with Rhonda Larson's flutes.
Sounds like you've got job security.Take Care,
Loch