E Donut Installation

[az1983]

I recently sold my beloved Altus to help pay off my new Muramatsu DS (YAY new flute!). I prefer split-E, which my Altus had, but Muramatsu doesn't offer on their Inline flutes. I've had good experiences with the E Donut on my back-up flute and am thinking of adding one to the Mura. Does anyone have suggestions on someone reputable to install one? Jeff Weissman ect?

Or am I about to make the biggest mistake of my life and ruin a brand new $10K flute?

[Zevang]

Congrats for your purchase, you really got an excelent instrument.

You will not ruin it at all, but you must consider that the E-Donut may affect a bit the intonation between A, A# or Bb and B because it's alters the venting below those key notes. My Sankyo has it and sometimes I have to make corrections depending on with what instrument I'm playing at the orchestra. But I must say that this is not an "enormous" task. Once you learn how to compensate for it, everything goes as if it never existed

I've heard about removable donuts, but I don't exactly know how it is applied nor the material used.

Good luck

[pied_piper]

I play a Muramatsu AD (the predecessor of your DS) and like yours, mine is also inline with no split E. Installing a donut (more formally known as a high-E facilitator) will not harm your flute because it is glued in place. I am a part-time flute tech and I installed mine using contact cement. That glue is easily removable with the proper solvent, but will still hold the donut securely in place. Some techs like to use epoxy to glue the donut in place, but I don't feel that is necessary. I installed mine 8 years ago and it's still securely in place. There is no pressure applied to it, so a strong glue like epoxy is really not needed. With epoxy, if you later change your mind and want to remove it, it is a bit more difficult (but not impossible) to remove.

As Zevang noted, the donut will slightly flatten the A, but on my Muramatsu, it is very slight and easy to compensate for while playing. I have found little-to-no affect to the tuning of any other notes. I checked my flute with a tuner both before and after installation and found no more than a few cents difference with the donut installed and there is often that much or more variation due to different individuals playing the same flute. I don't find any serious detriment to it. The donut is not quite as effective as a split E, but it is far better than not having either. All-in-all, I'm quite happy with it.

As far as where to have it installed, any good flute specialty shop should be able to do it for you. In addition to Weissman, you might consider these shops:

Flute Pro Shop - Their tech, David Kee, is a Muramatsu certified tech and at the NFA convention last August, Muramatsu had him performing adjustments on flutes in their booth! I'd say that's a good endorsement!!!
http://fluteproshop.com/index.php?route ... path=63_76

J.L. Smith - Harold Phillips is their lead tech and teaches classes for other repair techs
http://www.jlsmithco.com/About-Us

Carolyn Nussbaum - I don't know their flute repair tech, but they are highly regarded.

[JButky]

I play a Muramatsu AD (the predecessor of your DS) and like yours, mine is also inline with no split E. Installing a donut (more formally known as a high-E facilitator) will not harm your flute because it is glued in place.

I don't even glue mine, they are precision press fit. You can take them out or put them in in about 30 seconds..Glue is not even necessary if you fit it correctly.

[fluteguy18]

Carolyn Nussbaum - I don't know their flute repair tech, but they are highly regarded.

Here's the link to the 'About Us' on their webpage. There are two full time techs (Chelsey and Duane), and one part time (Carrie). This does not include the company owner Carolyn who is a genius repairman herself. I think they're all AWESOME, but then again... I may be a bit biased.



Just make sure whoever you have install it is Muramatsu Certified so that you don't void your manufacturer's warranty. All of the places PP mentioned are Muramatsu Certified/Licensed I believe.

[Zevang]

Guys, what are the materials your donuts are made of?
It seems that my Sankyo has it from the same material as the tube (gold) and it's actually soldered.

Thanks

[JButky]

Guys, what are the materials your donuts are made of?
It seems that my Sankyo has it from the same material as the tube (gold) and it's actually soldered.

Thanks

Yes there are a couple different kinds. The metal types are soldered in place and are usually moon shaped to help minimize the lowering of the pitch of A2. These require more work to install and can be removed with the same amount of work, Soldering involved, etc.

The delrin types look like donuts, round with a hole in the center. These can be pressed fit in place or fastened with a touch of super glue. How much difference there is in the amount of the A flattening is debatable. These are easily installed and removed with out any evidence of them being removed if that is desired.

I have an older gold bonded ST4 Muramatsu (1980ish) that I installed the delrin type. Even with the older scaling on that instrument, the A is fine for me with the donut installed.

Two types:

[pied_piper]

I installed an aluminum donut from J.L. Smith: http://www.jlsmithco.com/E-FAC

[JButky]

I installed an aluminum donut from J.L. Smith: http://www.jlsmithco.com/E-FAC

You can press fit those in too, no glue necessary. I have one of those in another flute...

[pied_piper]

I'll give that a try next time I install one. Thanks for the tip!

BTW, will you be at the NAPBIRT conference in Portsmouth next April? If so, any chance you'll be doing one of your headjoint cutting clinics?

[JButky]

I'll give that a try next time I install one. Thanks for the tip!

BTW, will you be at the NAPBIRT conference in Portsmouth next April? If so, any chance you'll be doing one of your headjoint cutting clinics?

Not Sure yet. Still too early to decide for me..

[Zevang]

Great info Joe!

Thanks a lot

[mirwa]

The press in type has become almost an industry standard, as Joe mentions above sometimes just a drop of superglue is all thats needed.

One thing to consider if you go down the path of having it soldered in is there is great risk of the tone hole being distorted whilst the soldering is being carried out. For someone that has done it a multitude of times, this is not an issue, but for newbies or someone with not as much experience it could go drastically wrong.

Also congrats on a beautiful flute.