I have been very interested in Rosewood flutes offered by a company called Orpheus flutes at orpheusflutes.com.
From a fife I own, I find I like the sound of rosewood better than the granadilla of my piccolo. No American or European manufacturer I know makes a Boehm flute from rosewood.
I particular interest to me was the web site
http://www.flutefriends.com/Englishpage.htm
It seems like the Chinese are inviting experts in the field of flute making from all over the world the hope of jump starting their flute industry in the same way the did for their nuclear/missile program. Despite what some might want to think, I don't believe Chinese flute makers are happy with making the trash flutes most everyone talks about. They definitely seem more willing to experiment than most of their American/European counterparts.
I have contacted and gotten replies from 2 people who had purchased an Orpheus flute about the flutes they bought. They both liked the flutes themselves, and one complained that it took over 2 months for him to receive his/her flute. (I get the feeling nothing about the flute is made until after the flute is ordered.)
Now many have said China equates to poor quality, but even though I buy the select styles of New Balance shoes which are made in America, I don't believe this is necessarily the case. My flute that I use at the moment is an Emerson purchased for about $1000 in '86 (don't know what model). The long term quality on this flute sucks, depite an overhaul done by the Emerson factory. (adjusting screws come loose during play, silver plating on keys is thin and of poor quality, etc.) I know the factory quality has probably changed quite a bit and is not as bad as it use to be. But as you might understand, I am more likely to equate America with poor quality, because I haven't been burned by the Chinese yet.
In short, I won't bother to read about a bunch of China = sux replies or cheap = sux replies.
I am interested in is any particular insight one might have *specifically* about Orpheus flutes that isn't already in the websites I've listed. Has anyone met, or does anyone know the manufacturers. Does anyone know Carolyn Oh, the featured artist? Does she actually endorse the product?
Has anyone actually bought and received one of these flutes? What is your opinion of them?
Orpheus Flutes
Moderators: Classitar, pied_piper, Phineas
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fluttiegurl
- Posts: 882
- Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 11:05 pm
I know nothing about Orpheus flutes, but am more than willing to try them in the opportunity arrises, as I have ALL other flutes that I have expressed opinions on. If anyone has more info, I would also be very interested.
Most people would be very surprised to find out exactly where their flutes were made (parts, assembled, etc). Most manufacturers will not even give the information in detail. Many of the flutes that are on the market as Japanese made are actually made in Taiwan. A few that are creditied to being American made are assembled in China (straight from the mouth of one maker - but I cannot disclose which one).
As for Chinese flutes being junk, I think most people (myself included) are talking about the cheaply made pot metal flutes that generally (not all - some are made right here in the good ol' USA) come from China. They are cheap imports of poor quality that are hurting the manufacturers who are legit. Simply put, they fall apart. Yes, the Chinese are willing to experiment and learn. I think of Yamaha about 25 years ago. Their flutes were not up to the US standards, but with trial, experimenting and willingness to learn, they are one of the leading manufacturers of instruments and have made the way for Japanese makers in the present. It is very possible that we will see this from China one day. As for your shoes, that really has nothing to do with flute makers (sorry to be rude). Yes, Emerson (and others) has had some problems. I too have experienced these. I own two flutes at the moment. One was made in the US, the other in Japan. I love them both, but they are both handmade. That is the ultimate difference. I have students who play flutes that are made all over the world. Some seem better mechanically than others, but ultimately it is up to the player to produce the desired sound. I take time to test play each flute that is purchased by my students while they are taking lessons. I listen for quality, look at the pads, test the keys for correct movement, check intonation, check the firmness of the metal (do keys bend easily?), and look the flute over for other signs of poor craftsmanship. That is how I judge quality. Then I let the student make the ultimate decission based on how he/she feels about the flute. I can easily give you a list of over 50 flutes that did not pass this test, but I have a list of about 15 that did pass in all price ranges - one from China.
Most people would be very surprised to find out exactly where their flutes were made (parts, assembled, etc). Most manufacturers will not even give the information in detail. Many of the flutes that are on the market as Japanese made are actually made in Taiwan. A few that are creditied to being American made are assembled in China (straight from the mouth of one maker - but I cannot disclose which one).
As for Chinese flutes being junk, I think most people (myself included) are talking about the cheaply made pot metal flutes that generally (not all - some are made right here in the good ol' USA) come from China. They are cheap imports of poor quality that are hurting the manufacturers who are legit. Simply put, they fall apart. Yes, the Chinese are willing to experiment and learn. I think of Yamaha about 25 years ago. Their flutes were not up to the US standards, but with trial, experimenting and willingness to learn, they are one of the leading manufacturers of instruments and have made the way for Japanese makers in the present. It is very possible that we will see this from China one day. As for your shoes, that really has nothing to do with flute makers (sorry to be rude). Yes, Emerson (and others) has had some problems. I too have experienced these. I own two flutes at the moment. One was made in the US, the other in Japan. I love them both, but they are both handmade. That is the ultimate difference. I have students who play flutes that are made all over the world. Some seem better mechanically than others, but ultimately it is up to the player to produce the desired sound. I take time to test play each flute that is purchased by my students while they are taking lessons. I listen for quality, look at the pads, test the keys for correct movement, check intonation, check the firmness of the metal (do keys bend easily?), and look the flute over for other signs of poor craftsmanship. That is how I judge quality. Then I let the student make the ultimate decission based on how he/she feels about the flute. I can easily give you a list of over 50 flutes that did not pass this test, but I have a list of about 15 that did pass in all price ranges - one from China.
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BlackSakura
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Sorry but I'm bumping this one up!-
fluteguy18
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- Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 3:11 pm
I have heard of them, but never tried one. I would try one if the opp. arises. And you know what, even though chinese flutes have a bad rep, I do give credit to some of the piccolos.
I played a silverplated gemmy picc for a while, but finally wanted to buy one of my own. A friend bought a Symphony Piccolo (based in NY but made in China), and I thought it played pretty well. I bought one for $130, and it played great. I used it as my primary picc for over two years (even after I got a diff. picc). But, I at long last got a Wood picc, and it is wonderful. (The Symphony picc is still fantastic though, and worth every penny. It looks bad after the plating wore off, but it plays circles around the gemeinhardt picc i played)
I played a silverplated gemmy picc for a while, but finally wanted to buy one of my own. A friend bought a Symphony Piccolo (based in NY but made in China), and I thought it played pretty well. I bought one for $130, and it played great. I used it as my primary picc for over two years (even after I got a diff. picc). But, I at long last got a Wood picc, and it is wonderful. (The Symphony picc is still fantastic though, and worth every penny. It looks bad after the plating wore off, but it plays circles around the gemeinhardt picc i played)
One thing we often forget is that Chinese did not invent cheap flutes. Someone funded the whole scam. Often times, some western source is the one responsible for the flood of junk. As of right now, Chinese companies are starting to do more self investment, like the Japanese did years ago. Now the Chinese flutes are getting much better, and infact in some cases are starting to be contenders. Unfortunately, it may take a while for the Chinese flute makers to be recognized. Also keep in mind to almost of the worlds largest flute companies at least get parts made in China. Taiwan is another plave that gets a bad rap. Yamaha makes a lot of instruments in Taiwan these days, that most people are not aware of.
I have several Chinese made flutes, and guitars that are very well made. I have some Japanese and American junk. What makes China such a big target.
Phineas
I have several Chinese made flutes, and guitars that are very well made. I have some Japanese and American junk. What makes China such a big target.
Phineas
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fluttiegurl
- Posts: 882
- Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 11:05 pm
You are exactly right Phineas, the Chinese did not invnt cheap flutes (or other instruments). I think we target China simply because that is where the majority of the sub-standard instruments that we are seeing are coming from. However, I am seeing them pop up having been made in America as well. As I said before, you might be surprised if you knew exactly where your flute was made. I am aware of three flutes that are pretty hot on the market right now that have bodies all made in the same plant in Beijing. They are made, then shipped to their various companies in the US, Europe and Japan for stamps and headjoints. I won't name names (I can't because of contracts that I have with two), but I will say that these are all good flutes.
My only question to you would be of all of these instruments you have, exactly how long do you play each of them? I ask because I barely have time to play two to three hours each day on one flute (I finally sold the other). The problems that I see arise after several hours of play time, especially with young students. The reason I point this out is simply that we cannot often judge a flute by its first few notes, or even its first few months of play. The real challenge is when it becomes your primary instrument. I found this to be very true with a specific model of flute made by Gemeinhardt in the late 90's and early 2000's. The ajustment screws weren't the right size (lack of quality control). Problem fixed? I am not sure, but I truly hope so because this is the main flute sold by several dealers in my area. However, I see this more with the Chinese and American "copy" or "knock off" flutes.
I too have heard great things about the Symphony piccolos. The finish does not tend to last long in general, but in overall playing, I have only seen a few duds. I think the key is quality control.
My only question to you would be of all of these instruments you have, exactly how long do you play each of them? I ask because I barely have time to play two to three hours each day on one flute (I finally sold the other). The problems that I see arise after several hours of play time, especially with young students. The reason I point this out is simply that we cannot often judge a flute by its first few notes, or even its first few months of play. The real challenge is when it becomes your primary instrument. I found this to be very true with a specific model of flute made by Gemeinhardt in the late 90's and early 2000's. The ajustment screws weren't the right size (lack of quality control). Problem fixed? I am not sure, but I truly hope so because this is the main flute sold by several dealers in my area. However, I see this more with the Chinese and American "copy" or "knock off" flutes.
I too have heard great things about the Symphony piccolos. The finish does not tend to last long in general, but in overall playing, I have only seen a few duds. I think the key is quality control.
This is a very valid question. To be honest, it really depends where I am. When I am in the US, China, or Taiwan(I do not get to play much in Japan), I play 3 to 4 nights a week, and get about an 1 to 2 hours of playing a day. I generally rotate through my "MAIN" instruments pretty frequently. Some of the less durable instruments like the colored Venus flutes are only played for special occasions, or show. (Frankly, purple flutes are BABE magnets!) I do agree that the amount of time you play on an instrument makes a difference in the durability factor. However, it would be unreasonable to expect a Venus to last very long if someone plays on it 4 hours a day! My Haynes would not even survive that! At least without some new pads and adjustment. Another factor is I am not a young child. I take very good care of my instruments. I would not expect the same out of a child, or an inexperienced player.My only question to you would be of all of these instruments you have, exactly how long do you play each of them?
Most of my Chinese flutes are made in Beijing. There are only 3 factories that I know of near Beijing, and the manufacture flutes for alot of people. One of these factory even made the Q series instruments for Yamaha. There are 2 factories near Shanghai. All of these factories put out decent materials. Generally, there are different grades of quality. What happens is some big company like Selmer or Yamaha will give one of these factories a spec. Any instrument that does not meet these specs will be rejected. The rejected instruments are sold based on the level of quality. You have probably seen the brand Band Now, and Barrington. These brands are manufactured in the same factory! But the quality is different from these 2 brands.
So where does the REAL junk come from? The sweat shops that are in the smaller villiages. If you think the $100 USD is cheap for a Flute, you should see how much of a mark up that is! You could get some of those junk instruments for as low as $10 USD. The sad thing is, the nice people that work at those factories have no idea that the stuff they are making is sub-standard! And you guessed right, some western investor is cashing in on it! I have had the pleasure of being invited to some of these factories for a tour. Some were very promising, some were not.
One more thing people should consider is these factories just simply may not know how to make a good quality instrument.
Phineas
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fluttiegurl
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Very good point. I would not know where to begin to make a flute, and I have been playing a long time.
Another good point is that you are an adult player who knows how to care for your instrument. Most of the people I see with these flutes are very young and have yet to learn how to care for them properly. That is where I usually step in, and the first thing I teach in general cleaning and care. It is a shame that many of these companies target parents of beginner students.
As for Barrington, this is one of the few that I now encourcge students to buy. I do like to play test them first (I like to test at least five at a time) for quality and intonation. I did not know that Band Now came from the same factory. Don't get me started on them . . .
Another good point is that you are an adult player who knows how to care for your instrument. Most of the people I see with these flutes are very young and have yet to learn how to care for them properly. That is where I usually step in, and the first thing I teach in general cleaning and care. It is a shame that many of these companies target parents of beginner students.
As for Barrington, this is one of the few that I now encourcge students to buy. I do like to play test them first (I like to test at least five at a time) for quality and intonation. I did not know that Band Now came from the same factory. Don't get me started on them . . .
Orpheus Flutes
Recently, I purchasd an Orpheus flute. Yes, it did take a few months for the instrument to arrive. But, this is not out of line with any other special-order instrument. In fact, it is less than many. As for the quality of the instrument, I am very pleased with the flute. The Violetwood body is very stable. The headjoint is responsive, offers a wide range of tone colors, and is even throughout the entire range of the instrument. The price was well worth the quality of instrument I recieved. For many years, I played on a wood german instrument with an Alex Eppler headjoint -impressive workmanship with an impressive price. My new instrument plays as well, for much less cost. For the person wanting a wood flute, at an affordable price, I believe an Orpheus flute would be a very good place to start.
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fluttiegurl
- Posts: 882
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Hello, I'm new here...nudging this thread since I am also very interested in purchasing an Orpheus flute.
I contacted buyers listed on Ebay who had purchased these flutes and they gave me frank reviews of their instruments (now that they've had them for a while). The general consensus is:
-For the amount paid (varies between $1400 to $2200 on ebay depending on added features and starting price) it is a good flute for the money
-Intonation is good and tonal color is consistent except for the lowest notes with some players (low C and B) which can sound spread and faint
-Key mechanism is receptive, but not as as smooth as a higher end instrument. This has to do with steel spring construction instead of the more standard white gold springs, apparently
-Concerning the headjoint styles---there are no differences sound-wise for the "American", "European" and "Asian headjoints" The difference is only aesthetic (the American headjoint is straight while the European and Asian ones have a distinct bulge at the base of the headjoint). The headjoint tone hole itself is square in shape. ALmost all users reported that it was easy to produce a tone on, but a few noted that producing tone flexibility was difficult (as opposed to playing a metal headjoiunt) The maker noted that the type of wood does change the sound signigicantly though and mentioned that the less dense woods (rosewood, kingwood, etc.) would be more flexible to work with.
-One user mentioned that she needs to get some fine tuned adjustments made on her instrument. I'm not what they entail, but once I hear back from her, I'll mention them here.
Hope this is helpful for some. I'm leaning towards getting a one. If I do, I'll post sound clips on here, if that is permissible.
I contacted buyers listed on Ebay who had purchased these flutes and they gave me frank reviews of their instruments (now that they've had them for a while). The general consensus is:
-For the amount paid (varies between $1400 to $2200 on ebay depending on added features and starting price) it is a good flute for the money
-Intonation is good and tonal color is consistent except for the lowest notes with some players (low C and B) which can sound spread and faint
-Key mechanism is receptive, but not as as smooth as a higher end instrument. This has to do with steel spring construction instead of the more standard white gold springs, apparently
-Concerning the headjoint styles---there are no differences sound-wise for the "American", "European" and "Asian headjoints" The difference is only aesthetic (the American headjoint is straight while the European and Asian ones have a distinct bulge at the base of the headjoint). The headjoint tone hole itself is square in shape. ALmost all users reported that it was easy to produce a tone on, but a few noted that producing tone flexibility was difficult (as opposed to playing a metal headjoiunt) The maker noted that the type of wood does change the sound signigicantly though and mentioned that the less dense woods (rosewood, kingwood, etc.) would be more flexible to work with.
-One user mentioned that she needs to get some fine tuned adjustments made on her instrument. I'm not what they entail, but once I hear back from her, I'll mention them here.
Hope this is helpful for some. I'm leaning towards getting a one. If I do, I'll post sound clips on here, if that is permissible.
I went ahead a purchased an Orpheus flute--I placed an order for a rosewood Artiste model (has the rose gold keys) and also got an extra grenadilla head. The contact for the site, William Marlowe (also a flautist) is incredibly easy to work with and was good about answering my questions.
I got a reply from another ebay member who purchased a violetwood model some time ago (hers has a special B flat foot joint) and she (at least I think it is a she...) was quite happy with the instrument. As for the cited difficulties with the lowest notes, this user mentioned that with time, and adjustments to embouchure one can eventually get the low notes to speak well with a lot of projection. SHe did mention something interesting though:
The Bb foot is impressive but it does make it a little harder to play the 4th octave (only a slight difference though). How that works actually is the gizmo presses down all the foot keys, so for the high C, you can't use the gizmo.
I should be getting my flute in a month or so. I can't wait! I'll keep you guys updated on my thoughts on this brand of instrument.
I got a reply from another ebay member who purchased a violetwood model some time ago (hers has a special B flat foot joint) and she (at least I think it is a she...) was quite happy with the instrument. As for the cited difficulties with the lowest notes, this user mentioned that with time, and adjustments to embouchure one can eventually get the low notes to speak well with a lot of projection. SHe did mention something interesting though:
The Bb foot is impressive but it does make it a little harder to play the 4th octave (only a slight difference though). How that works actually is the gizmo presses down all the foot keys, so for the high C, you can't use the gizmo.
I should be getting my flute in a month or so. I can't wait! I'll keep you guys updated on my thoughts on this brand of instrument.
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flutepicc06
- Posts: 1353
- Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 11:34 pm
You'll have to let us all know what you think of it once you get it! That is an interesting version of a gizmo key...I don't think I remember ever hearing of a gizmo that took down all the foot keys at once...I wonder what the purpose of that is? The gizmo really is intended as a high C facilitator (traditionally B foot flutes were more difficult to play the 3rd octave on, so it was meant to help with that), but if it can't be used as a C facilitator, what's it's purpose? Did the seller happen to mention it?
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fluteguy18
- Posts: 2311
- Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 3:11 pm
I haven't asked the seller about this yet, but I highly suspect it's a construction fluke--either it was constructed or designed wrong. If you look at the picture, it almost looks like the designer thought the gizmo was used for depressing all the foot keys to facilitate getting the lowest note out of the special b flat foot without regard for the 3rd anf 4th octave functionality. I dunno...What do you guys think?
I can't remember off the top of my head if the underside of the gizmo merely has cork that one can shave off at different levels so that it only hits individual foot keys. If that's the case, it might be correctable.
Here's a picture of it:
I can't remember off the top of my head if the underside of the gizmo merely has cork that one can shave off at different levels so that it only hits individual foot keys. If that's the case, it might be correctable.
Here's a picture of it: